# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/141 "2005-10-02T03:26:05Z")
I was glad to see some advanced technology on the rim worlds. Windmills generating electiricty, or perhaps pumping water with modern vanes. Video tombstones, although that seems pretty silly. I’d add audio to mine. “Don’t I look like myself?” A cannon that doesn’t need air to fire! 🙂 Questions: What was the uniform shirt that Jayne was wearing? What is the origin of the phrase “Can’t stop the signal”? ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/142 "2005-10-02T03:38:22Z")
**WhyNot** , I like your analysis of the Operative as a Lockian philosopher. It didn’t work for me in the movie, but it’s an interesting perspective. > [@otto](#): > > OK, I don’t recall the specific wording from the pilot so I can’t really comment on that aspect, but for the rest I think your critique is wrong. To break out River, Simon spent a great chunk of his personal fortune developing the contacts he needed to get her out. Presumably this took a period of months, during which time he was able to formulate his plan. Recall from “Ariel” that with even a short time to plan, Simon can come up with a highly organized scheme to take down an Alliance hospital and get River in the imager. Surely with even more time there’s no doubt he could have put together his plan for extracting River. As for his being a “cunning master of disguise,” in “Jaynestown” he had zero time to prepare and was in a role (mud buyer) with which he had absolutely no familiarity. When extracting River, he was in the role of an Alliance medical person, a role he knew intimately, and his “disguise” consisted largely of an overcoat. Here are Simon’s own words: > [@Simon Tam](#): > > For two years I couldn’t get near her…then I was contacted by some men, some undergound movement they, they said that she was in danger, that…that the government was playing with her brain. If I funded them, they could sneak her out in cryo, get her to Persephone, and from there I could take her…wherever. This, in addition to the implication upon opening River’s box that it was the first time Simon had seen River in a long time, shows that the rescue was rewritten. Which I actually don’t have a big problem with, except for the changes it creates in Simon’s character. While we clearly differ in out assessment of his character, I don’t think my critique is wrong. Throughout the show, Simon is shown to be not-so-good at interacting with people; he gets nervous and says the wrong things. In Jayne’s Town, just about anyone could have been a better mud buyer than Simon. And in Ariel, he made a plan based on his knowledge of hospitals (which I’d guess are very different from secret Alliance research facilities) and his only interaction with people is when he saves someone’s life…which isn’t exactly acting, because Simon _is_ a doctor. I also disagree with your statement that in the movie Simon was posing as an Alliance medical person; it looked to me like he was posing as a military person. (But, yeah, it wasn’t really a “disguise” so much as a costume) I personally think it really changed the portrayal of Simon, but both sides of this issue are more matters of opinion than fact. Oh, and no worries about getting my name wrong, Otto; everyone does it. > [@Sam Hell](#): > > Wash dying was good to make the 'verse dangerous. If no one had died, would you have said there was no “sense of danger” to the battle? Um, it’s a little silly to argue with things I didn’t say. Nor would I say. I thought there was plenty of danger; these are reavers after all. > [@](#): > > Book’s history can still be explored in a sequel. Or not. It’s fun to speculate on, and he told Mal what he needed to know the beat the Operative: Believe in something, as he does, or you won’t be dedicated enough to beat him. I thought that was very Bookish advice, but hardly necessary. Still, it suited the character to say it, so it worked for me. However, exploring Book’s backstory without Book actually there sounds less fun than with him there to face up to the the crew’s reactions. > [@](#): > > A Bow and arrow likely had more changce of doing penetration against the reavers, and likely the little gun just didn’t pack a wallop or had not much juice. IMHO this is a silly objection. Well, I think your rationalization is twice as silly as my objection, so there. I can understand why she might not have the little gun; she did have to flee her home on short notice. And it absolutely seems in character for Inara to know how to use one; she probably learned that right along with her swordsmanship at the Whore Academy. But history has shown us that bullets are better than arrows in actual combat situations, so I still think the bow and arrows were goofy. > [@](#): > > Sound in space-I call producer’s interference. Can’t be helped. Very likely true. And the sound was disappointing to me, but it wasn’t actually bad moviemaking, it was just a minor bummer. > [@](#): > > The electrical cloud was a nebula. They exist in space. I’ll grant you it was a BIT of a DEM to have that there, but presumably it helped keep Mr. Universe hidden (something had to). As Sam Stone pointed out, the electrical cloud wasn’t a nebula; nebulae aren’t like that. It was more of a…space thingie. > [@](#): > > She was dangerous and the Alliance wanted her back. How else to show she’s dangerous than to have her do all of that amazing stuff? There was a good reason for the Alliance to want her back: She was a reader and had been in a room with members of Parliament. She may have used her Mothership Connection to learn some the of the secret lyrics to Flashlight or P-Funk. Err, wait, she may have learned about secret things, like how the Alliance was responsible for 30 million deaths on Miranda. That pretty clearly shows how she’s dangerous to the Alliance without her having to become a super fighter. (Don’t get me wrong here, the martial arts sequences were nifty…I just thought they had no place in this movie nor performed by that character) > [@](#): > > I figured “Miranda” was part of a pre-programmed code they’d stuck in her head to control her, so the people like her and the Pax were going to be used together. The Operative went through the records and found that word, used it to make her go wonky. By the time she’d enrolled in the special government program (at age 14; from the pilot episode) Miranda had already been toast for nine years. I can’t imagine they’d be making any reference to Miranda or using it as any sort of code word; that seems like a bad idea. So I still don’t get it. I think the writer just needed some way to plant the Miranda clue, and got lazy and wrote something that didn’t make a lot of sense. > [@](#): > > And of course it was changed for a theater audience, if they were just depending on Firefly fans for money they wouldn’t get as much as if they went for crossover appeal. I guess, given how good Firefly was, I was hoping they’d try to convert non-fans to Firefly fans, rather than convert Firefly to mainstream tastes. > [@](#): > > This is all just my own opinion in a spirit of friendly debate, no hard feelings, Sengkelat. Even if you’re wrong. Which you are. No worries, I’m not taking offense. It’s easy for me to be magnanimous given that I’m right and you’re wrong. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/143 "2005-10-02T03:40:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I was glad to see some advanced technology on the rim worlds. Windmills generating electiricty, or perhaps pumping water with modern vanes. Video tombstones, although that seems pretty silly. I’d add audio to mine. “Don’t I look like myself?” > > A cannon that doesn’t need air to fire! 🙂 Firearms have not needed air to fire for about 150 years now. I’m pretty sure they would retain that technology going forward from 2004 A.D. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/144 "2005-10-02T03:52:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Firearms have not needed air to fire for about 150 years now. I’m pretty sure they would retain that technology going forward from 2004 A.D. You obviously do not follow the Firefly threads on the boards, or at least my rants. 🙂 I believe the episode in question is _Our Mrs. Reynolds_. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/145 "2005-10-02T03:56:13Z")
And it’s 2005 C.E. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/146 "2005-10-02T03:58:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Firearms have not needed air to fire for about 150 years now. I’m pretty sure they would retain that technology going forward from 2004 A.D. That’s actually an in-joke from an episode of the series, _Our Mrs. Reynolds_. In it, a big deal is made of how one of Jayne’s guns needs air to fire. Turns out that they got the technical details wrong about that (i.e. the gun definitely didn’t need air), something they 'fessed to in the commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/147 "2005-10-02T04:04:45Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > That’s actually an in-joke from an episode of the series, _Our Mrs. Reynolds_. In it, a big deal is made of how one of Jayne’s guns needs air to fire. Turns out that they got the technical details wrong about that (i.e. the gun definitely didn’t need air), something they 'fessed to in the commentary. Once again, I’m gonna make my oft-made statement that an air-cooled weapon would have some severe problems when used in a vacuum (nothing to cool the weapon with). That, or Jayne just didn’t know what he was talking about. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/148 "2005-10-02T04:06:58Z")
Anyway, after noting that the time it took me to read the entire third page mean that **carnivorousplant** got the drop on me regarding the _Firefly_ reference, it’s time to offer my take on the movie. I loved it. In fact, the more I think about the movie, the more I like it. I wish they had had more time to develop the characters, but corners must be cut when you’re talking a two-hour movie instead of a 13 episode season. But I definitely laughed and cried and all the rest. First, things I didn’t like: I prefer the (apparently studio-mandated) lighter captain from the series to the one in the movie. As a standalone character, his hard edges would be fine, but when compared to the captain who said in _Safe_ (paraphrasing): [to Simon]: You’re on my crew. Why are we still discussing this? it seemed kind of weird for him to suddenly have so many problems with Simon (and flat out say to him that he’s not part of the crew). And they killed Wash! I think that stuck with everyone in the theater when I saw it. The movie ended, and I sat for about a minute, then just yelled: “They killed Wash!” Someone sitting a few rows ahead of me turned around and said “I know! It sucks!” Things I liked: The one-liners are still there full-force. The bad guy was so well done (I liked him better than Jubal Early, in fact). The explanation for the Reavers seemed pretty well done (definiely makes more sense than "They went crazy on the edge of space). River’s kicking Reaver ass was also awesome. The score was great - really served to heighten the mood. Jewel Staite and Morena Baccarin are _hot_. The dinosaurs on the bridge of Serenity. Anything and everything Jayne does. There’s plenty more. Perhaps I need to see the movie again. I really hope it does well and that we may be treated to sequels! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/149 "2005-10-02T04:07:47Z")
> [@Sengkelat](#): > > While we clearly differ in out assessment of his character, I don’t think my critique is wrong. Throughout the show, Simon is shown to be not-so-good at interacting with people; he gets nervous and says the wrong things. Well no, he’s not-so-good at interacting with people who are light-years outside his comfort zone. When we see him on his “home turf,” the hospital on Ariel, he’s calm, composed and in control. He not only saves the patient’s life and upbraids the doctor, he stands up to the Alliance security guy. Simon’s 'verse simply doesn’t contain people like Mal, or Jayne, or Kaylee. He operates on different frequencies, which results in the awkwardness. > [@Sengkelat](#): > > In Jayne’s Town, just about anyone could have been a better mud buyer than Simon. Couldn’t disagree more. The buyer had to have the right look, and Simon was the only one with the right look. The supervisor simply wouldn’t have bought anyone else of the crew (with the possible exception of Book) as being of the merchant class. > [@Sengkelat](#): > > And in Ariel, he made a plan based on his knowledge of hospitals (which I’d guess are very different from secret Alliance research facilities) and his only interaction with people is when he saves someone’s life…which isn’t exactly acting, because Simon _is_ a doctor. Did he really have to know that much about the Alliance facility for his plan to succeed? For all we know, the facility _is_ a hospital or uses a similar layout. His master escape plan seemed to be “locate River, set off wavy bomb, get River to elevator shaft, hitch ride.” As long as he can get his wavy bomb through Security and can get himself escorted to River, all he needs to know is where the elevators are. > [@Sengkelat](#): > > I also disagree with your statement that in the movie Simon was posing as an Alliance medical person; it looked to me like he was posing as a military person. Split the difference. A military doctor/scientist. As for the differences between the scenario as described in the pilot and the scenario as it played out in the movie, I tend to give pilots a little more slack on matters of continuity just because of the newness of everyone involved. It’s also not unreasonable to think that Simon didn’t tell the entire story in the pilot. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/150 "2005-10-02T04:11:48Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Couldn’t disagree more. The buyer had to have the right look, and Simon was the only one with the right look. The supervisor simply wouldn’t have bought anyone else of the crew (with the possible exception of Book) as being of the merchant class. I couldn’t disagree more. He was an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/151 "2005-10-02T04:16:04Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Once again, I’m gonna make my oft-made statement that an air-cooled weapon would have some severe problems when used in a vacuum And once again, I’m going to point out that Joss owned up to his mistake on the DVD. To quote Kahn: “It is very cold in space.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/152 "2005-10-02T04:18:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I couldn’t disagree more. He was an idiot. Which, actually, I think tended to lend to his credibility as a rich off-world buyer. I saw the scenario as him being a wealthy enterprising young lad who, lacking in the kind of experience he would need to deal on the Rim worlds, hires on a guide of sorts, ie: the knowledgable, confident rougish fellow making suggestions of what he should do. One has the financial capital to do the job, the other has the know-how and confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/153 "2005-10-02T04:19:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > To quote Kahn: “It is very cold in space.” > 🙂 Right, but a Thermos, filled with a tiny bit of space, still manages to keep hot coffee hot (and cold kool-aid cold. HOW DOES IT KNOW?!) Anyhow, depending on how you made the gun, the whole “siezing up from overheating” might not be as much of an issue 500 years in the future. That said, I’m not even sure how much of an issue it is now. Does NASA have any plans to test-fire an AK-47 in space? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/154 "2005-10-02T04:21:10Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Which, actually, I think tended to lend to his credibility as a rich off-world buyer. I saw the scenario as him being a wealthy enterprising young lad who, lacking in the kind of experience he would need to deal on the Rim worlds, hires on a guide of sorts, ie: the knowledgable, confident rougish fellow making suggestions of what he should do. One has the financial capital to do the job, the other has the know-how and confidence. Regarding the way the Foreman regards him, you may have a point. “This guy is an IDIOT! He’ll buy _anything_” ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/155 "2005-10-02T04:24:26Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > Jewel Staite and Morena Baccarin are _hot_. But not as hot as they were. Jewel definitely lost the twenty pounds Joss made her gain and it looks like Morena slimmed down between the ending of the series and the shooting of the movie as well. Also, it seems you’re forgetting [Summer Glau](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/aesiron/da533582.jpg). And Nathan Fillion and Sean Maher if you like the boys, which I do. Hell, who’m I kidding… I think everyone but Ron Glass is gorgeous. > [@MilTan](#): > > I really hope it does well and that we may be treated to sequels! It only did $3.9M and premiered at number two, being beaten by _Flightplan_ in its second week. Not bad, per se, but not so great either. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/156 "2005-10-02T04:26:57Z")
Just saw it tonight. It was awesome, although I can see that it might not be as entertaining for non-fans of the series. But frankly the hell with them…IMHO this movie was for US. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/157 "2005-10-02T04:53:11Z")
He who, Simon or the supervisor? Simon was thrown into the role with no time to prepare and no real knowledge of how a mud buyer would operate. And really, he only said about two sentences before Mal stepped in to make the suggestion of wandering a bit. If it hadn’t been Simon, which of the crew would you suggest have played the part? Question that’s largely unrelated to the movie. There’s an entry on IMDB that talks about the leather cord necklace Zoe wears, saying it’s like a wedding ring. Where in the series is that established? ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/158 "2005-10-02T04:54:16Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > But not as hot as they were. Jewel definitely lost the twenty pounds Joss made her gain and it looks like Morena slimmed down between the ending of the series and the shooting of the movie as well. Also, it seems you’re forgetting [Summer Glau](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/aesiron/da533582.jpg). And Nathan Fillion and Sean Maher if you like the boys, which I do. I guess I’m shallow - I like the thin version of Jewel Staite too. (Just rented and watched _Wonderfalls_ last week - damn you Fox for cancelling yet another show that I enjoyed - and she was quite attractive - and quite, uh, amorous - in that one, too) > [@](#): > > It only did $3.9M and premiered at number two, being beaten by _Flightplan_ in its second week. Not bad, per se, but not so great either. Yeah, I hit up boxofficemojo right after I posted that and saw those numbers. Not promising ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/159 "2005-10-02T05:16:09Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > It only did $3.9M and premiered at number two, being beaten by _Flightplan_ in its second week. Not bad, per se, but not so great either. Like the series (on dvd) itself this strikes me as the kind of movie where a huge opening weekend and a massive dropoff aren’t going to be in store. It seems like a great word of mouth movie as people who wouldn’t see it normally get told by friends they needn’t have seen the series. Besides, there’s always dvd sales 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/160 "2005-10-02T05:24:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > BTW, did I ask why the reavers didn’t shoot River? 🙂 She tells you why in the very beginning of the movie… “They want us alive when they eat us.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=9)