# Sergei Vladimir Ilyushin: First in Space? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2001, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888 "2001-07-26T19:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/1 "2001-07-26T19:37:37Z")
What is the concensus among the experts (by which I mean of course Cecil and the SDMB’ers) on the story that S.V. Ilyushin was the first person to go into space (and return alive) as opposed to Y. Gagarin? The story I saw on a TV doumentary (WVNC, 26 July 2001) was quite convincing in this regard, but I understand that there are those that “say it ain’t so”. The story is that he went up and something went wrong after a spell, rendering him unconcious. Eventually, the ship came down. The plan —as for Gagarin’s flight— was for him to eject aroung 10,000 ft and descend by parachute for extra safety. But since he was out cold, he landed rough with the ship and was injured. He also landed in China, so it is said. Relations with the Chinese were poor at the time, and he was held as a “guest” for about a year before returning. Since things were always supposed to go perfectly with all things Communist, the semi-failure was never publicized. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/2 "2001-07-26T21:53:16Z")
This is a lot more detail than I’ve heard, but it was mentioned in a video program on the Russian Space Program that aired in 1999. I don’t know anything about the veracity of the claim. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/3 "2001-07-26T23:15:37Z")
What it is interesting is the fate some cosmonauts IN TRAINING had. In that case there is evidence that a lot has not been revealed. The soviets seemed to have reached the position that if you did not reach orbit your death or failure would be ignored. But after that, no mishap was hidden. With America’s eyes on any soviet launch to orbit, it was not possible to hide failure. Indeed, several cosmonauts, after a successful Gagaring, did die and the news hit the world then. Now it looks like even the American media only think it is worthy to bring back the memories of the other cosmonauts in training only in the guise of lurid conspiracy. I think it is sad that this the way we are remembering all those forgotten pioneers of space. The feedback on another web site that posts essays on heroes has nice pro and con views of the controversy: [http://www.myhero.com/explorers/feedback.asp](http://www.myhero.com/explorers/feedback.asp) The Jim Oberg’s link in that site does not work, use this one instead: [http://www.jamesoberg.com/russian/usd10.html](http://www.jamesoberg.com/russian/usd10.html) This last link has the best explanations and summary of many other rumored cosmonaut mishaps. Unfortunately one of the producers of the documentary resorts to name calling to defend the program and it sounded to me like one of those “I believe any conspiracy” guys. And looking for reports on the documentary I found that, in the end, Ilyushin refused to be interviewed. So I say that Ilyushin has been unfairly forgotten, but not because he was the first man in orbit, I think this honor still belongs to Gagarin. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/4 "2001-07-27T06:55:38Z")
For related info, you can also try the [Lost Cosmonauts Website](http://www.lostcosmonauts.com). The site is a mixture of hard information and speculation, and I don’t know what amount of it is real. Some portions of it are pretty convincing, while others… Be warned that some parts of it are just plain creepy - real or not - such as the “transcript” of the (alleged) first woman in space dying on re-entry. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/5 "2001-07-27T08:03:01Z")
At the risk of veering too close to GD territory… Remember that the Space Race and the Cold War were tightly meshed. Both sides had a vested interest in downplaying the other guy’s space program, in order to increase the apparent success of their own. Claiming that the Russkies lost a metric buttload of cosmonauts but covered it all up because they were sneaky commie bastards… well, it has a long history, and as with so many things during the Cold War, truth was less important than the perception of truth. The Soviets told tales about the capitalist running dog American space program, too. This sort of thing hasn’t stopped. Therefore, be very skeptical of any claims of “conspiracy” and “cover-ups” that don’t have the evidence to back them up. Remember that the Soviets publicly buried several cosmonauts who died in the line of duty, in state funerals with great ceremony. They were lauded as heroes, and the faithful lapped it up and continued to support the space program. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/6 "2001-07-27T15:11:27Z")
[Last time this came up](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26641), I think the conclusion fell pretty convincingly on the “bullshit” side of the fence. However, something strange indeed was going on prior to Gagarin’s launch. I’m now more inclined to believe that it was normal people acting excitably in the face of one of the greatest events in human history. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/7 "2001-07-27T22:11:08Z")
Science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein got the definite impression that there was a failed mission before Gagarin. He was in Moscow at the time, and the word around town (from a group of soldiers on leave) was that the USSR had that very day launched a man into space. The _Pravda_ headlines the next day told of the failure of an unmanned rocket, with a mannequin on board. Of course, this is not definitive: The soldiers could have been mistaken, or deliberately misleading. It’s still enough to make one at least suspicious, though. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/8 "2001-07-29T03:37:27Z")
There’s a two page article on this subject by James Oberg available here: [http://solar.rtd.utk.edu/~mwade/spaceflt.htm](http://solar.rtd.utk.edu/~mwade/spaceflt.htm) Enjoy. FWIW I think all of these stories are questionable at best. Don’t know about the Ilyushin one but it may not be covered in the article. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2001, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sergei-vladimir-ilyushin-first-in-space/73888/9 "2001-07-29T04:04:26Z")
I just read through the article at the link I posted above, and it does mention Ilyushin. This is what Oberg wrote back in 1975: > [@](#): > > In early April it was clear that the manned shot was imminent. The “cosmonaut” would be a young man, alone, planning to make one circuit of the earth. > > By April 9th, every foreign newsman in Moscow was sitting by his radio set. On the next day, Dennis Ogden, the Moscow correspondent of the British Communist newspaper Daily Worker, scooped the world with his report that a man had been shot into space but had returned deranged and was now hidden away in a rest home. The pilot was indirectly identified as Lieutenant Colonel Vladimir Sergeyevich Ilyushin, son of the aircraft designer and a famous test pilot in his own right. The cosmonaut, launched on April 7th or 8th, had circled the earth three times in his spaceship “Rossiya” (“Russia”). > > Amid the confusion, on April 12, the spaceship “Vostok” circled the earth once and landed. Major Yuri Gagarin, 27, was named as its pilot. > > His bronze bust was unveiled in Moscow. Posters with his portrait were distributed to the cheering crowds. A new Soviet postage stamp was issued. All these factors indicate a long period of preparation for this precise event. > > What can we make of the Ogden report? Even after the passage of years, many still believe that an earlier flight was made. > > Ogden was aware of the rumors and stories about an imminent manned space flight. There had been indications that it had almost been launched several times. Or perhaps it had really been launched, and the official silence implied that it had failed. > > Furthermore, he learned from other personal contacts that Lieutenant Colonel Ilyushin, who was a neighbor of Ogden’s in Moscow, had been injured somehow and was in a hospital. > > Ogden concluded that the flight had already taken place and that Ilyushin was the pilot. With extra details from the U.S. Mercury program, he wrote his story and sent it out to London. The correspondent was wrong on so many particulars that he probably never even got to any real news leak. There was enough evidence flowing around Moscow to put his story together with. > > The best argument against the report of this and earlier failures is the fact that when Gagarin was eventually launched, TASS released its first bulletin while he was still in flight. This sequence of flight events and TASS announcements has been precisely expounded in Danilov’s readable and complete survey of the Russian space program, The Kremlin and the Cosmos. If the flight had been preceded by unannounced failures, it is obvious that it would not have been announced until a successful completion had been achieved. Hope this helps.