# Serial liar rejected for state bar. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 30, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140 "2014-01-30T17:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/1 "2014-01-30T17:40:36Z")
[The California Supreme Court says Glass “lacks the good moral character” to be a lawyer.](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/27/justice/stephen-glass-court-ruling/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1) Sometimes the jokes write themselves. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/2 "2014-01-30T17:45:24Z")
Any comment would be superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/3 "2014-01-30T17:54:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [The California Supreme Court says Glass “lacks the good moral character” to be a lawyer.](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/27/justice/stephen-glass-court-ruling/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1) > > Sometimes the jokes write themselves. 😛 Actually, lawyers have very tight ethical rules. As it should be, we are often entrusted with huge sums of money that belong to other people, and we are given access to many otherwise confidential documents. Judges and juries have to be able to trust us. I enjoy a good lawyer joke as much as the next guy, but “good moral character” and “lawyer” are not at odds. Not to say there aren’t some really, really, disgusting lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/4 "2014-01-30T18:22:03Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Actually, lawyers have very tight ethical rules. As it should be, we are often entrusted with huge sums of money that belong to other people, and we are given access to many otherwise confidential documents. Judges and juries have to be able to trust us. > > I enjoy a good lawyer joke as much as the next guy, but “good moral character” and “lawyer” are not at odds. Not to say there aren’t some really, really, disgusting lawyers. I think the issue people have with lawyers doesn’t arise from lawyers being unethical in non-legal situations. It’s because the particular ethics of the legal field are often at odds with what many feel to be proper and just, and this strikes people as wrong. Note that there are quite possibly valid reasons for these legal ethics rules. But they don’t smell good to a lot of other people. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/5 "2014-01-30T18:42:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Actually, lawyers have very tight ethical rules. Yes, but professional ethics isn’t the same thing as “good moral character.” One common lawyer stereotype (whether or not it’s justified) is of the lawyer who takes the weaseliest possible way of staying technically within the law/rules. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/6 "2014-01-30T18:43:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Note that there are quite possibly valid reasons for these legal ethics rules. But they don’t smell good to a lot of other people. Mainly to people who don’t really know what the legal ethics rules are. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/7 "2014-01-30T19:02:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Mainly to people who don’t really know what the legal ethics rules are. Exactly so. I mean, I’ll admit that some of the Model Rules are not entirely to my liking. For example, the Comment to Model Rule 7.6 specifically states that free legal services to a candidate do not count as a “political contibution” in exchange for engagements or appointments, which would be barred by the rule. I would be interested in arguments in favor of that exception, but it seems unnecessary and unwise offhand. But that’s the exception, and a relatively minor one - especially since these are only the model rules, and they’re tweaked by every state. Most of the Model Rules (and the state codes based on them) are pretty reasonable, emphasize scrupulous candor and the avoidance of conflicts of interest, and call for attorneys to engage in pro bono service. What’s not to like? Seriously, the Model Rules are online here: [http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional\_responsibility/publications/model\_rules\_of\_professional\_conduct/model\_rules\_of\_professional\_conduct\_table\_of\_contents.html](http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/model_rules_of_professional_conduct_table_of_contents.html) . What doesn’t smell right? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/8 "2014-01-30T19:08:28Z")
I think they should allow Glass to be a lawyer, for it weren’t for him, the only role Hayden Christensen was ever any good in would have gone to waste. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/9 "2014-01-31T04:06:47Z")
I’ll give two examples from tennis, where lawyers disgraced themselves as human beings. There was a team of lawyers who played in our team tennis league. One of the rules of the league was that host club would provide a safe playing facility. When we played the lawyers at our court in the fall, they stopped the game every time a single leaf fell or blew onto the court, and demanded that a member of our team remove it. They would not remove it themselves. The league coordinator was terrified of them because they had reputedly sued a volunteer official before (or maybe just wrote some letters threatening to sue). The next time we played them it started snowing. They insisted that the would win by forfeit. The rules addressed rain and temperatures below freezing, and it was neither raining nor below freezing, and the court was clearly not safe to play on, so we had failed to provide a suitable set of courts as required. This being Atlanta, the league probably never imagined they needed to address snow specifically or use the word precipitation instead. Now cue the lawyers telling us that the league should have been more careful drafting the rules. Most people will be singularly unimpressed. Next the lawyers will tell us that we would be very happy to have a lawyer zealously advocate for us to the fullest extent of the law. No, really, most people would rather replay a tennis match, than claim a forfeit by making a distinction between snow and rain. Only a real jerk would want their lawyer to find and use that loophole, and only a jerk would do it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/10 "2014-01-31T07:06:15Z")
Well, I think the problem is you were dealing with a bunch of assholes who happened to be lawyers. I suppose it’s true that the profession does attract more of the asshole personality type, but, while we’re being anecdotal, my experience with lawyers (I worked for a couple of defense attorneys for a a year and a half) was nothing but positive. Probably the most intelligent, kind, generous, and ethical people I have ever worked with. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/11 "2014-01-31T12:08:12Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I > > Now cue the lawyers telling us that the league should have been more careful drafting the rules. Commonlaw, Snow and other “acts of god” are unfairness that should be shared equally ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-liar-rejected-for-state-bar/680140/12 "2014-01-31T13:02:54Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Only a real jerk would want their lawyer to find and use that loophole, and only a jerk would do it themselves. There’s nothing in your story that has anything to do with lawyers, just jerks. These jerks could have been plumbers and it wouldn’t have changed your story one bit.