# Serial (the podcast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 4, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417 "2014-10-04T23:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/361 "2014-12-30T01:30:53Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > The possibility is then that Adnan did call him to come pick him up in the 2:[39?] call, but it was before Hae-Min was killed. Then what prevented her from picking up her cousin after school? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/362 "2014-12-30T01:46:26Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Doubtful. Why wouldn’t Adnan actually tell someone, if that’s what happened? 2 reasons. First, he’d have to admit that he was involved in a drug deal, which carries risks (possible retaliation by criminal elements, severe shaming within his community). Secondly, if Hae was abducted while Adnan was distracted, he might have honestly believed she just left him and disappeared for her own reasons. (refresher - this is regarding my theory that Hae witnessed Adnan taking part in a drug transaction coordinated by Jay). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/363 "2014-12-30T02:06:52Z")
Interesting bit from the new Jay interview… given the enormous risks of getting nailed for drug offenses, this would present a very good reason for both Jay & Adnan to continue stonewalling. Coming clean cannot help Hae now, and could only screw up their lives even worse. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t just like I was selling a nickel bag here and there. At the time, this was Maryland in the ’90s, the drug laws were extremely serious. I saw the ATF and DEA take down guys in my neighborhood for selling much less than I was at the time. And they were getting sentenced to three and five years. I also ran the operation out of my grandmother’s house and that also put my family at risk. I had a lot more on the line than just a few bags of weed. > > The other thing to understand is something about the culture of Baltimore—this is where the ‘Stop Snitching’ video comes from. This is where it was produced. It went national, but it was produced in Baltimore. This is where people would have their house firebombed and still tell the police they knew nothing about it rather than to try to make some sense of what’s going on. And that’s not necessarily me—but that is my family, that is my uncles and cousins. It’s where I’m from. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/364 "2014-12-30T02:25:30Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > 2 reasons. First, he’d have to admit that he was involved in a drug deal, which carries risks (possible retaliation by criminal elements, severe shaming within his community). Secondly, if Hae was abducted while Adnan was distracted, he might have honestly believed she just left him and disappeared for her own reasons. > > (refresher - this is regarding my theory that Hae witnessed Adnan taking part in a drug transaction coordinated by Jay). To your first point, most people would readily confess to selling drugs if it absolves them of a murder charge. To your second, why would that prevent him from saying anything once he found out Hae was murdered? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/365 "2014-12-30T03:18:22Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > Not to distract from the ongoing discussion, but [Jay was interviewed](https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/) (not by Serial) and gave another account of the day’s events. Oh my. So, let’s see, we have… Yet another trunk pop location. A new burial time. Actually, a whole new timeline. New version of the “come get me call” and what was said. And more. Fifteen years later, and Jay is still at it. I have a headache now. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/366 "2014-12-30T07:51:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Then what prevented her from picking up her cousin after school? I had thought there was question as to whether she could even have left the school by that time, according to some descriptions. If she would necessarily have been gone by then, then that wouldn’t fit. (Her pick-up time was after 3:00, so I think it’s still possible she would have been hanging around, possibly allowing Adnan to talk to her/get in her car later). ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/367 "2014-12-30T09:13:26Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > I think this is a very relevant story. I don’t have a big problem believing it was a coincidence. There are so many ways coincidences can happen, so one or more of them are bound to happen. Actually, I just figured out what happened. The drunk guy probably damaged the window, and that’s why it shattered so easily when my neighbor opened the door just a bit later. Mystery solved, coincidence explained. Nothing to see here. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/368 "2014-12-30T10:43:09Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Actually, I just figured out what happened. The drunk guy probably damaged the window, and that’s why it shattered so easily when my neighbor opened the door just a bit later. > > Mystery solved, coincidence explained. Nothing to see here. Carry on. Isn’t that also unlikely? How big are the chances that you damage the window to the exact degree that it doesn’t break, but it breaks very easily afterwards? I’m not sure I buy this “drunk guy and neighbour were in on it together” theory. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/369 "2014-12-30T11:00:18Z")
So what do people think of the new Jay interview? Over on Reddit everyone thinks it puts Jay in a worse light. But to me his new story makes sense. Let’s look at the two possible Jay’s, one who lives in the world where Adnan killed Hae (Jay #1), and one who lives in the world where Adnan did not kill Hae (Jay #2). Jay #1. For this Jay, the new version is basically the real one, with perhaps some smaller things he doesn’t remember correctly. This Jay lied repeatedly in different ways, including under oath, when he was 18. Now he is grown up, and he hears that people are questioning his story, which makes sense to him, since he knows it’s not fully true. Therefore he decided to tell the full truth, as well as he recalls it. The reason that he lied to the police and such is basically the one he states in the interview, that he didn’t want to cooperate with the police, and wanted to protect people. This mindset seems likely to me for a teenager living in Baltimore in the 90s. People on Reddit think that this interview makes him less trustworthy because there are now 7 different versions. But as I see it, the number of versions has been reduced from 6 to 2. One where he didn’t want to tell the police the truth, and they questioned him until they settled on the version that sounded good enough (although it actually wasn’t, eg the impossible 2:36 pick up.), and one where he tells the truth years later. Jay #2. I have a really difficult time seeing why this Jay would give this interview and tell this story. Why would he make up a new story, with new potential problems? It’s clear that he didn’t even bother to listen to the podcast and make up a story that fitted the facts as best he could. I guess in this scenario Jay is a pathological liar, that thinks he can get away with whatever lie he makes up. Additionally I don’t see any obvious issues with his new story. 3:15 is the come get me call. A minor thing is that Adnan didn’t call Jay’s house from his phone according to the logs, but it could easily be that he just comes to pick him up without calling, and Jay misremembered that detail. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/370 "2014-12-30T13:08:24Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > To your first point, most people would readily confess to selling drugs if it absolves them of a murder charge. > > To your second, why would that prevent him from saying anything once he found out Hae was murdered? To both points - getting absolved from a murder charge requires getting someone else convicted, and also somehow placing oneself and family beyond retaliation from the culprit’s criminal associates. I believe Adnan was the “dumb drop” in the drug transaction, so whatever small information he offered would be overwhelmed by Jay’s story. You do NOT want to implicate drug gangs in murders. If they can’t come after you, they’ll come after your family or friends. Can we all agree on that? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/371 "2014-12-30T13:22:08Z")
**Brickbacon, Labrador Deceiver** , both of you were acting like complete jerks in your squabble yesterday. I flipped a coin as to whether to give you warnings for it or not, and you won – no warnings, just a stern “do _not_ do this again.” **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/372 "2014-12-30T14:07:14Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You do NOT want to implicate drug gangs in murders. If they can’t come after you, they’ll come after your family or friends. Can we all agree on that? No. Honestly, any drug gang selling to a high school honors students is not going to kill his family in retaliation. There is almost no way these two were involved in major drug sales. Both had jobs and Jay didn’t even have a phone, pager, or car. Jay was supposedly driving around town looking for dime bags earlier in the day the day Hae was murdered. The idea there is some shady drug gang out there is ludicrous, and it makes no sense to keep up this ruse for nearly 15 years while you rot away in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/373 "2014-12-30T15:02:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > To both points - getting absolved from a murder charge requires getting someone else convicted, and also somehow placing oneself and family beyond retaliation from the culprit’s criminal associates. I believe Adnan was the “dumb drop” in the drug transaction, so whatever small information he offered would be overwhelmed by Jay’s story. So, you’re saying he went to jail for life in order to save his family? I tend to doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/374 "2014-12-30T15:08:19Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > So what do people think of the new Jay interview? > > Over on Reddit everyone thinks it puts Jay in a worse light. But to me his new story makes sense. Sure, his new story makes sense, but it’s still another all new story. How many times can we say “I don’t believe the previous story, but I believe this one” before we just conclude that Jay is untrustworthy? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/375 "2014-12-30T15:10:18Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > Sure, his new story makes sense, but it’s still another all new story. How many times can we say “I don’t believe the previous story, but I believe this one” before we just conclude that Jay is untrustworthy? I don’t think anyone has ever said that prior to yesterday. During the podcast, the closest we ever came to that was “Jay is clearly lying his ass off about the details, but I believe him when he says Adnan killed Hae.” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/376 "2014-12-30T15:16:10Z")
As somebody who has spent a lot of my life being really good at lying to people, Jay’s story just rings as true to me whereas Adnan’s sounds like somebody still trying to hide something. Just what my gut tells me after reading Jay’s interview. It just sounds fairly legit to me. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/377 "2014-12-30T15:55:18Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > Sure, his new story makes sense, but it’s still another all new story. How many times can we say “I don’t believe the previous story, but I believe this one” before we just conclude that Jay is untrustworthy? 19 yo Jay is certainly untrustworthy, but then we knew that already. And it’s possible that he doesn’t lie so much anymore now that he is older. I do not see his motivation for coming forward and inventing a new false story, without even checking the details. He sounds like a guy who thinks that he can just tell the truth now, and things will be cleared up, he doesn’t sound like a guy who is trying to cover up something with a clever lie. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/378 "2014-12-30T16:44:03Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > Sure, his new story makes sense, but it’s still another all new story. How many times can we say “I don’t believe the previous story, but I believe this one” before we just conclude that Jay is untrustworthy? Actually, it still doesn’t make sense because his latest timeline still doesn’t work. (This one has Adnan in two places at the same time.) Whatever happened, this latest version isn’t it either. Maybe he’s forgotten over the intervening years and is bullshitting details for this reporter. Maybe this is the story he’s told himself so many times that he now believes it to be true. But it isn’t what actually happened. I’m still at “plausible, but not enough for a conviction.” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/379 "2014-12-30T18:06:16Z")
Jay is a lying liar who lies so he can’t add anything meaningful to the story any more. It’s all just diversions. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/380 "2014-12-30T18:31:34Z")
What, fifteen years later, does Jay need to come forward and give an interview to divert from? He’s not in prison and has zero chance of going there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417.md?page=20)