# Serial (the podcast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 4, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417 "2014-10-04T23:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/21 "2014-10-14T01:56:58Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > I listened to the first three episodes today and loved it - can’t wait till part 4 comes out on Thursday. I’m slightly worried, though, that the producers are going to start to run into dead ends and the story will dry up before they really get to the end of this. Although they’ve been working on the story for a year, my impression was that they’re still researching it as we speak. My guess would be that, though they are still producing the episodes as they go, all the research and detail gathering phases are done, precisely for the reason you mention. They’re master storytellers and I’d think they’d be wise enough to collect all their data before figuring out how to structure the episodes and the series as a whole. At least that’s what I’m hoping. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/22 "2014-10-14T19:56:27Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > After all, this is the day his close friend and ex-girlfriend vanishes - surely an upsetting and memorable event, and one that - if he were innocent and had half a brain - would have immediately prompted him to start mentally accounting for all his actions since he last saw Hae. Instead we’re supposed to believe that he just can’t remember? That maybe he went to track practice, or maybe he was at the library, maybe he was with a friend? “Who knows - it was just a regular day!” At the very least that sounds suspicious to me - not the response of a wholly innocent person. But, I’ll be curious to see how things continue to unfold… Exactly. Ask me to remember a random Thursday from high school, and obviously I won’t be able to. Ask me to remember the Thursday from high school when my girlfriend goes missing and turns out to be brutally murdered, and I’ll have a timeline etched in my skull even these 20 years later. There was a murder of a girl in my junior high school and to this day I can remember where I was that day despite barely knowing her. It was a major event in my childhood. I feel like they glanced over this point in the podcast. ---
**Author:** ![TheTerribleTako](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@TheTerribleTako](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTerribleTako)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/23 "2014-10-16T20:09:28Z")
Episode 4 was just released today. What do you all think? I just started listening to this podcast a few days ago and I’m seriously hooked. I almost wish that I hadn’t discovered it until a while later so I wouldn’t be left hanging for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/24 "2014-10-16T21:44:05Z")
> [@TheTerribleTako](#): > > I almost wish that I hadn’t discovered it until a while later so I wouldn’t be left hanging for so long. I have every intention of just forgetting about it for a year and then come back to it when it’s finished. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/25 "2014-10-17T12:52:23Z")
Episode 4 didn’t change my mind. I still wouldn’t vote to convict based on reasonable doubt, but I still lean toward thinking that he did it. The only thing that changed, is that I think Jay (the witness) was more complicit in the murder and/or coverup and that is why he was so cagey and his story changed. I think he didn’t want to acknowledge his role, and obviously Anand can’t acknowledge Jay’s role without acknowledging his own. Again, just leaning that way, not convinced. ---
**Author:** ![TheTerribleTako](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@TheTerribleTako](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTerribleTako)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/26 "2014-10-17T16:49:11Z")
I’m not quite sure what to believe right now. In my view, Jay is obviously not credible, but the fact that he knew where to find the car means he was involved with the whole thing somehow. That just leaves the question of his role and whether or not Adnan was involved. At this point in the story, I can see why the detectives were so sure they had their guy. They had the anonymous phone call, they had a sort of credible witness, a gap of time that can’t be accounted for by the suspect, and a possible motive that aligns with their experience. However, it just seems odd to me that Jay is the only person who has ever heard Adnan express a desire to kill Hae. Even in Hae’s diary, it seemed that she painted Adnan as a considerate ex-boyfriend who she’s on good terms with. And Adnan seems exactly like the goofy, high-achieving stoners I knew in high school who would have trouble recounting what happened the day before. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/27 "2014-10-17T19:51:04Z")
> [@Moe](#): > > I’m totally loving this show, and it’s killing me that I have to wait for the next episode. If they were all released at once I would tear through them in a day. They should really sell the future episodes to raise money. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Exactly. Ask me to remember a random Thursday from high school, and obviously I won’t be able to. Ask me to remember the Thursday from high school when my girlfriend goes missing and turns out to be brutally murdered, and I’ll have a timeline etched in my skull even these 20 years later. I tend to agree, but I think it’s important to remember that while some people were worried about her soon after her disappearance, there was a snowstorm that kept them out of school the next couple days (I think), and the fact that she was murdered was known only a few weeks later. Plus, Adnan seems like he was a pretty big pothead at the time, am not surprised he doesn’t remember much. Still though, you would think he’d either remember, or be more upset that he couldn’t remember given he is in jail. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I feel like they glanced over this point in the podcast. I don’t think they glanced over it as much as she just thought it wasn’t as relevant given the above. However, I suspect there will be an episode about how others in the school reacted. I am kinda surprised there weren’t groups of students looking for her, or holding vigils, etc. Maybe there were and we will hear about it later. > [@TheTerribleTako](#): > > I’m not quite sure what to believe right now. In my view, Jay is obviously not credible, but the fact that he knew where to find the car means he was involved with the whole thing somehow. That just leaves the question of his role and whether or not Adnan was involved. I agree. Jay also seemed to know how she was killed and where she was buried. However, I don’t get why Adnan would involve him, even going as far as to show him the body. I suppose stranger things have happened, but I suspect we have not learned the complete truth yet. At this point in the story, I can see why the detectives were so sure they had their guy. They had the anonymous phone call, they had a sort of credible witness, a gap of time that can’t be accounted for by the suspect, and a possible motive that aligns with their experience. Rabia Chaudry blogs about the episodes [here](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/splitthemoon/2014/10/serial-episodes-1-2-the-alibi-mystery-and-dating-on-the-dl/) in addition to providing more insight. Obviously, she is a little biased though. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/28 "2014-10-17T20:25:58Z")
> [@TheTerribleTako](#): > > Even in Hae’s diary, it seemed that she painted Adnan as a considerate ex-boyfriend who she’s on good terms with. And Adnan seems exactly like the goofy, high-achieving stoners I knew in high school who would have trouble recounting what happened the day before. But there was some odd possessiveness that they talked about. Like when he showed up repeatedly at nights that she was hanging out with girl friends. Her friends seemed to think that it was very unusual. ---
**Author:** ![TheTerribleTako](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@TheTerribleTako](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTerribleTako)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/29 "2014-10-17T21:21:36Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > But there was some odd possessiveness that they talked about. Like when he showed up repeatedly at nights that she was hanging out with girl friends. Her friends seemed to think that it was very unusual. That’s a good point, I’d forgotten about that. I don’t see that as being too damning of Adnan’s character though. I think high school romances can veer towards mildly creepy obsession as teenagers figure out how relationships work. Even so, Hae didn’t seem bothered by it and the friends didn’t seem to feel that Adnan was a threat even if it was odd. I guess like Sara Koenig said, a lot of Adnan’s actions can read sinister in one light and perfectly normal in another depending on how you’re predisposed to see him already. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/30 "2014-10-25T19:31:13Z")
Does anyone think Adnan didn’t do it? ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/31 "2014-10-25T19:51:42Z")
I am leaning towards he did do it but… there is enough question in Jay’s story and the performance of the defense attorney to perhaps warrant a new trial. I’d like to hear more from Hae’s side of the story- of course she’s not here to tell it but it just seems strange that Adnan would have plans to kill her but she doesn’t mention in her diary any fear of him and she must have agreed to let him in her car (if he did in fact kill her). At least, it seemed normal that she might still talk to Adnan or give him a ride. So far, I’ve heard other people say he said he was going to kill Hae but no one yet says that Hae expressed even anxiety over how Adnan was taking the breakup. Plus he was seeing other girls at the time- doesn’t exactly point to an obsessed ex-boyfriend. Not sure I think Asia is relevant- yes, she could have been Adnan’s alibi but she’s so back and forth about it you kind of wonder what’s going on. Too bad no one could have nailed that down at the beginning- maybe another reason he does deserve a new trial. I’m becoming obsessed not only with this show, but podcasts in general- though not really crime dramas have added Strangers and The Moth to my listening schedule to help me get through the long, long week until Serial is back. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/32 "2014-10-25T21:06:27Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Does anyone think Adnan didn’t do it? I’m leaning that direction. I don’t believe Jay at all. I don’t think that the timeline or the motive that the police & prosecutors advanced adds up (in other words, if he did do it, I don’t it think happened how/why they said he did it). I definitely have what I’d consider reasonable doubt as to his guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/33 "2014-10-25T21:13:23Z")
There are weird holes—the phantom pay phone, the hit-and-miss cellphone data, the track coach who didn’t take attendance at a mandatory practice … ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/34 "2014-10-25T21:14:30Z")
It would be easier for me to accept guilt if the prosecution’s story was an act of passion rather than premeditated. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/35 "2014-10-26T01:51:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It would be easier for me to accept guilt if the prosecution’s story was an act of passion rather than premeditated. Why? Either way, I am pretty confident he did it given the evidence we have so far for a number of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/36 "2014-10-26T03:40:31Z")
If Adnan didn’t do it, doesn’t that make Jay the prime suspect? He certainly seems like more of a fruitcake than Adnan. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/37 "2014-10-26T11:51:18Z")
Based on the information we’ve been given so far, I think things look very bad for Adnon. 1. As mentioned above, I simply don’t believe that he would have no memory of what he was doing that day. 2. Jay knew where Hae’s car was and Adnon was with Jay that day - both, IIRC, by his own hazily remembered account, because Stephanie testified she saw them together, and because of the phone call to the other friend which placed them together. 3. Based on the cell records, Adnon’s cellphone was evidently with Jay for much of the day, corroborating his story. The cellphone was also in Leakin Park. Adnon has given no reason for why his phone was where it was. 4. The two high school girls testified that Adnon was going to try to get a ride after school with Hae; Adnon himself told the police that he had planned to do that. There’s probably more that I’m just blanking on. But there’s also this: who else would have wanted to murder Hae? (Granted, there could be whole worlds of suspects that the show hasn’t revealed to us yet.) We’ve been told that there was no sign Hae was raped before being murdered; she wasn’t robbed (her car was abandoned); her current boyfriend had an apparently strong alibi; and there have been no mentions of other ex-boyfriends or enemies she may have had. This is even less scientific, but I’ll say it anyway: I just don’t believe Adnon, the way he speaks. At least in the excerpts we’ve been allowed to hear, the way he talks about the murder often reminds me of the way children talk when they want to cover something up but don’t want to _technically_ lie about it, so instead they deflect the issue with legalistic word games. For example, he doesn’t repeatedly and unequivocally say, “_I did not do this_;” instead he says things like, “Why would I do this? What motive would I have? How could that timeline hold up?” I just don’t believe him. I also thought it was strange to learn this week that they narrowed the murder down to those crucial 21 minutes simply based on the call they think Adnon made to Jay to tell him to come pick him up. How do they know it didn’t happen slightly later? Maybe Jay was in on it and was there when the murder took place, later in the afternoon. And as for Jay…I think it’s significant that they have made no mention of where Jay is today or what he’s up to. I suspect we’re due for a twist - learning, perhaps, that Jay is in jail, too, for some other crime, or that he was murdered, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/38 "2014-10-26T13:01:14Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Based on the information we’ve been given so far, I think things look very bad for Adnon. It’s Adnan ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/39 "2014-10-26T13:54:30Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why? Because the premeditated murder doesn’t fit in with anything else we know so far. There was no indication in Hae’s diary that Adnan was stalking her or upsetting her. (That whole deal with his showing up at her overnight parties seems entirely innocent to me.) Jay’s story just doesn’t make any sense to me and it doesn’t fit with what anyone else was saying about Adnan’s personality and behavior at the time. Now if the allegation was that Hae did actually give Adnan a ride that day and they fought or something and the murder was unplanned—I could buy that much more easily given the circumstances. Maybe even accidental asphyxiation during rough sex. But the whole story that Adnan planned it in advance just doesn’t work for me—at this point anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417/40 "2014-10-26T14:49:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s Adnan Thanks [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serial-the-podcast/700417.md?page=3)