# Series you've recently watched, are now watching or have given up on **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [July 9, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108 "2021-07-09T17:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 274
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5468 "2025-01-13T12:58:55Z")
We watched _Black Doves_ on Netflix. Since it’s a standard modern action thriller, I suppose we have to expect all the usual implausibilties and impossibilities: in gunfights the good guys never miss, and the bad guys never hit; safes can be opened in seconds just by placing a little electronic gizmo on them; all computer tech works perfectly, every time; the American embassy’s surveillance cameras can be accessed and blocked by a hacker with two minutes’ notice; etc., etc. (I often wonder if a show that didn’t contain any of these ludicrous plot devices, and was entirely, or at least mostly, realistic, would be as bad as Hollywood seems to think.) But what bothered me most about the show was the two main characters, and the fact that we’re supposed to sympathize with them. I’ll spoiler much of what follows, but I don’t think I’m revealing anything this isn’t shown within the first few minutes of the first episode when I say that Helen (Keira Knightley) is a spy and Sam (Ben Whishaw) is a hit man. The show spends a lot of time establishing the emotional connections these two have with other people, Sam to his ex-lover, Helen to her children and murdered lover, and to her husband, sort of. But at the end of the day, Helen married a top British official who doesn’t know that she is passing government secrets to a shady private spy agency, and Sam is a contract killer who has murdered many people. Oh, yes, Helen is a murderer, too. Helen is motivated by revenge for the death of her lover, and Sam asserts that the world is better off without the people he has killed, but are these good enough reasons for us as viewers to excuse all the crimes they commit? They are portrayed as charming and loving with their loved ones, but cold and brutal with their enemies. Indeed, the dual nature of their personalities, and their efforts to reconcile them, is the key dramatic turning point in the whole story. ISTM that action thrillers rarely deal with such issues, and with good reason. James Bond doesn’t have a wife and children to worry about. That, and the fact he’s working for “our side,” is why we can root for him despite his tendency toward violence. But this show seems to say that if you’re a _nice_ person, and some people love you, and you love them, it’s okay if you seduce someone, marry him and have kids with him, all on behalf of an organization that sells the information you’re stealing to the highest bidder, regardless of ideology. Knightley and Whishaw make their “Dr. Jekyll” sides appear charming and charismatic. They are _not_ presented as anti-heroes doing whatever they must to survive in an evil world. Or as Tony Soprano-like characters, who we are clearly supposed to condemn and feel morally superior to. The show wants us to like them and feel that they are justified. But to the extent we do so, we are complicit in their crimes. I resent the show for trying to make me like and sympathize with characters who are, basically, despicable people. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5469 "2025-01-13T15:14:01Z")
I watched one on Netflix a year or two back, at least I think it was Harlan Coben, and it got increasingly ridiculous the longer it dragged on, and yet I felt compelled to continue watching it to the bitter end. So, mission accomplished from Netflix’s point of view, I suppose. The crowning glory of the ‘plot’ was the fact that the protagonist, now im her late 30s, early 40s, had changed her identity at some point in her late teens, early 20s… and then moved a whole 5 minutes’ car journey down the road. Because of course. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5470 "2025-01-13T15:48:30Z")
Harlan Coben plots - and I used to occasionally buy them in desperation in various airport bookstores - rarely stand up to scrutiny. I think he finds some image he likes, or setup that’s intriguing, and then piles a lot of action and horseshit around it. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5471 "2025-01-13T15:56:20Z")
If I remember the Coben formula from the onslaught that came out on Netflix during COVID, it boils down to “it was the character we just introduced one episode ago all along.” 90% red herrings with no clues to the real solution until the last two episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5472 "2025-01-13T15:56:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The spouse is watching **The Following** with Kevin Bacon. It’s deeply ridiculous and I can’t sit and watch for very long Yeah, that’s one of the shows where you keep watching it just to see how ridiculous it can get. I think it peaked at: they found out one agent was guarding a person they thought was a victim, but was actually part of the killer cult. So the agent in charge phones a _completely different agent_ to warn them, rather than just phoning the agent who was in danger. That agent, of course, ends up dead. Yeah, great communications plan, there, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5473 "2025-01-13T16:02:18Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > If I remember the Coben formula from the onslaught that came out on Netflix during COVID, it boils down to “it was the character we just introduced one episode ago all along.” 90% red herrings with no clues to the real solution until the last two episodes. That sounds about right. And I feel like I have to add - I used to fly a lot, and would treat myself to a paperback each time, and I would stare at those damn books and think “they’re so popular, they can’t _all_ be bad” and buy yet another. [narrator: it’s possible they’re all bad] ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5474 "2025-01-13T16:03:12Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Knightley and Whishaw make their “Dr. Jekyll” sides appear charming and charismatic. They are _not_ presented as anti-heroes doing whatever they must to survive in an evil world. Or as Tony Soprano-like characters, who we are clearly supposed to condemn and feel morally superior to. The show wants us to like them and feel that they are justified. But to the extent we do so, we are complicit in their crimes. > > I resent the show for trying to make me like and sympathize with characters who are, basically, despicable people. Have you watched The Americans? I’m not sure if you’d love it or hate it, but it plays with the same balance. But it sounds like they hit that balance much better. They make the leads genuinely likeable in their cover identities, while never shying away from how awful most of their covert actions are. And the leads are seen to struggle with this during the show. The male lead eventually “retires” from the spy game because he’s become so stressed out by the dichotomy of his life, and his disillusionment with the reality of what the USSR is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5475 "2025-01-13T16:05:04Z")
It’s the pair of women assassins in _Black Doves_ who weirdly come across as the most honest. Yes, they are amoral killers but they know and accept who they are, what they do, and that it will almost certainly lead to their imminent and violent deaths and they don’t pretend otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5476 "2025-01-13T17:16:16Z")
Started **Severance** now that is on the Roku channel - I was expecting more ads – but just a 30 sec one at the beginning. I’m guessing they think I will get hooked and subscribe to season 2. They underestimate my patience. I’m avoiding the thread to minimize spoilers (I don’t think I know anything important). Brian ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5477 "2025-01-13T17:54:19Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > 90% red herrings with no clues to the real solution until the last two episodes. Sounds just like _Death in Paradise_ (albeit that same thing happened over the course of each episode), which was decent for a couple of years and quickly got boring. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5478 "2025-01-13T18:15:14Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I think he finds some image he likes, or setup that’s intriguing, and then piles a lot of action and horseshit around it. I think you have described most TV writers, if not movie ones. Most shows start out reasonable with their premise. A mystery author can help catch a murderer based on his works. A psychologist can detect lies by seeing microaggressions. A math genius can figure out a crime. Crowdsourcing can solve crimes. Sure, maybe they can help with one but most of the time, they are going to get in the way, not help. Or it’s not just on them to solve it but a team working toward it. In the end, it comes down to ratings, which is how well they can keep the premise going. I’m into s3 of White Collar and I’m torn on it. It’s well acted, I love the cast, and the premise is good. It stretches things at times, but that’s part of the medium and I accept it. What gets me is that at some point in season two, Caffery sees how good he has it, even without Kate, but flips on a dime when shown the treasure. Part of his realization, though, was that he wouldn’t have to look over his shoulder the rest of his life. I’m finding it really tough to watch him revert back to that. I know Mozzie is the one that did it, and he didn’t have the connection to Peter that Neal does, but it still annoys me. I’m glad most of the shows don’t deal with that and instead are good stories of cons. I just watched s3e4 of White Collar, Dentist of Detroit, and it reminds me of Hustle, the British show. They had the same hustle done in this White Collar episode. I think Hustle might be the first show I watched from that side and it was fun and interesting learning the hustles. Of course, I do wonder how many are real vs TV real but it’s still fun. Thanks for the discussion! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5479 "2025-01-13T18:30:05Z")
_Black Doves_ was more a comedy played straight than anything else to me. I’m just not 100% sure it was _intended_ to be such. But wonderfully acted! ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5480 "2025-01-13T19:08:35Z")
**Population: 11** (Prime, 2024, 1se. 10 ep.) My wife and I just finished this. Recommended for fans of quirky characters and anyone who liked **Superstore** or **Wentworth**. No critic ratings listed on Rotten Tomatoes yet but the fan rating is 93% and I understand why. Starts on the funny side but gets more serious as the mystery is revealed. At 30 minutes a pop it’s a perfect evening appetizer, but my wife and I couldn’t help ourselves and binged them all in two weekend evenings. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5481 "2025-01-13T19:15:29Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > I think you have described most TV writers, if not movie ones. Most shows start out reasonable with their premise. That is not really my experience - I’ve seen plenty of good movies and TV shows that have smart writing and more than just a premise. Now, I haven’t watched “most” TV shows or movies, and there’s certainly some selection bias in what I watch, so… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5482 "2025-01-13T19:18:39Z")
Given up on We watched the first season of _Travelers_ when it came out and I was curious how the series turned out. We rewatched the first season as we had forgotten a lot of it. OMG it’s horrible! The writing is really bad and I don’t really care about the characters. We didn’t even make it through the first season (again) and gave up. I read what happens the rest of the series and it sounds like it becomes even more of a cluster in seasons 2 & 3. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5483 "2025-01-14T03:36:51Z")
Finished slogging through all 8 episodes of _The Madness_ on NetFlix. The first 15 minutes of Episode 1 were action-packed, setting up what should have been a great story. Unfortunately, the final 375 minutes were a convoluted mess. Would not recommend. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5484 "2025-01-14T13:36:41Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > We watched the first season of _Travelers_ when it came out and I was curious how the series turned out. We rewatched the first season as we had forgotten a lot of it. OMG it’s horrible! The writing is really bad and I don’t really care about the characters. We didn’t even make it through the first season (again) and gave up. I remember thinking that season 1 started out as intriguing but ended up as a confusing mishmash. I didn’t bother with season 2 or 3 either. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5485 "2025-01-14T13:40:31Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Finished slogging through all 8 episodes of _The Madness_ on NetFlix. The first 15 minutes of Episode 1 were action-packed, setting up what should have been a great story. Unfortunately, the final 375 minutes were a convoluted mess. > > Would not recommend. Agreed, my wife and I saw it all but I am not sure why, I struggled to care at every point. I guess it moves along and there is at least the possibility of action. But yeah, the plot was corny. White Supremacists may believe in conspiracies, but that is not a group to affect any. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5486 "2025-01-14T14:28:17Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > IMO, _Breaking Bad_ is #1, _The Wire_ is #2, and _Succession_ is not even in the Top 10. It was okay, but I didn’t enjoy it as much as most people did. I’d rank _The Wire_ at #1, at least for the first four seasons. The final run wasn’t a horrible show, but I thought there was a serious dropoff. I appreciate people’s love for _Breaking Bad_, and I did watch the entire thing eventually, but all the sand and dry air made me thirsty, and I found it an overall unpleasant experience. I’m just about done the first season of _True Blood_, which I’m enjoying overall, but (and this is I’m sure partly due to our polarized times), it’s unsettling to root for the residents of a town that’s very much in thrall to the Lost Cause. Just three or four episodes in, the main vampire character is invited to speak at a gathering of “The Descendents of the Glorious Dead” and regales the town with his stories about fighting for the confederacy. I know I’m really late to the show, and I think it’s kinda hilarious that I can buy the BluRay box sets used for about $6 a box these days, as it’s really dropped out of the cultural conversation. About fourteen years ago I was dating a woman who’d been a big fan. My then-GF (who was bi and had an eidetic memory) once said to me, “I’ve seen Anna Paquin’s breasts so often, I can sketch them from memory at this point.” which still cracks me up to this day. Finished season 2 of _Star Trek - Enterprise_, which I really enjoyed, and I don’t quite get the hate for the show, despite some obvious franchise retconning. Just started the reboot of _V_ for shits and giggles. Having failed to get through the original series last year (it’s aged really badly), I’m enjoying the pace and the special effects of this one, though they may as well have a big neon sign in the background flashing “Welcome to Vancouver!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/5487 "2025-01-14T14:32:43Z")
Exactly. Reading through what happened the rest of the series, it seemed like everyone became a Traveler. A more interesting line may have been that they were in a good spot here in the past so considering screw the protocols and just live life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108.md?page=273) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108.md?page=275)