# Serious idea: survivors/families of mass shooting victims get same benefits and honors as veterans **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873 "2018-02-15T15:02:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/21 "2018-02-15T17:48:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t know why you find the concept shocking. _Some_ mass shootings have been motivated by clear hatred toward the victims’ cohort (one of the earlier ones, the 1989 slaughter at the Ecole Polytechnique, was motivated by hatred of women). They probably represent a very small minority of mass shootings, most of which, like this recent one, seem directed at random victims who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. So…start paying the victims of mass shootings so that a very small percentage of the shooters might feel bad about it after the fact? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/22 "2018-02-15T17:53:27Z")
I agree with the sentiment that people that are shot solo shouldn’t be forgotten. More people are killed individually than in mass shootings. So, why not pay out everyone? If you are killed by a gun, you were killed because our society holds the right of owning a gun above that of the safety of others. You died to protect that right. Yeah, everyone who is injured by a gun should get a purple heart and honors that go along with being injured in the line of protecting the freedoms of other americans, and the family of anyone killed should receive the same benefits and honors as those of families who have lost loved ones in the military. The idea that somehow the fact that the military volunteered for duty, and therefore should be honored more doesn’t make any sense. As our president said, “They knew what they were signing up for.” Now, while that is callus, and certainly not something that should be said to a grieving family, there is truth to the idea that when they signed up to get shiny helmets and guns with which to shoot other people, they acknowledged that the job could entail danger. That’s why they get combat pay and stuff like that. To claim that a civilian high school student’s death should not be honored simply due to the fact that he didn’t sign up to be shot at, didn’t sign up for a free college education, didn’t sign up for free room and board, strike me as a bit backwards. If this is the price we pay for the second amendment, then the burden of that cost should be shared by society, not isolated to the victims. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/23 "2018-02-15T18:05:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, everyone who is injured by a gun should get a purple heart and honors that go along with being injured in the line of protecting the freedoms of other americans, and the family of anyone killed should receive the same benefits and honors as those of families who have lost loved ones in the military. Why only gun injuries? Military members don’t have to be injured by a gun to get a Purple Heart. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/24 "2018-02-15T18:11:20Z")
Why not purple hearts and cash for the survivors for victims of drunk drivers or convicted felons out on parole? Those people died “because our society holds the right of” drinking alcohol / giving convicted criminals second chances about that of the safety of others. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/25 "2018-02-15T18:12:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If this is the price we pay for the second amendment, then the burden of that cost should be shared by society, not isolated to the victims. Isn’t there a price to be paid for the other amendments? Should that cost be shared as well? Like I said, Joe Criminal robs a liquor store. He gets caught and goes to prison for five years. He doesn’t go for LWOP, because that is a violation of the Eighth Amendment. Now he gets out and robs my liquor store and stabs me to death. Why doesn’t society share that cost? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/26 "2018-02-15T18:13:43Z")
Should the victims of auto accidents that happen at speeds greater than 55 MPH be honored / paid because that’s the price we pay to be able to drive at 70 MPH? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/27 "2018-02-15T18:16:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why not purple hearts and cash for the survivors for victims of drunk drivers or convicted felons out on parole? Those people died “because our society holds the right of” drinking alcohol / giving convicted criminals second chances about that of the safety of others. Because there isn’t a national organization touting the patriotism and/or societal benefit of either driving drunk or being on patrol? edited to add: Same logic for not honoring speeders that cause accidents. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/28 "2018-02-15T18:18:10Z")
Murders and violence aren’t anywhere close to uniquely American, but regular mass shootings are uniquely American, so I think this uniquely American phenomenon perhaps deserves particular attention, and those victims/survivors/families of this uniquely American phenomenon deserve particular recognition due to their involuntary sacrifice for the uniquely American freedom to very easily legally obtain extremely deadly firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/29 "2018-02-15T18:22:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because there isn’t a national organization touting the patriotism and/or societal benefit of either driving drunk or being on patrol? What does that have to do with anything? I am not aware of any organization touting the societal benefit of dying in a mass shooting either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/30 "2018-02-15T18:22:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Murders and violence aren’t anywhere close to uniquely American, but regular mass shootings are uniquely American, so I think this uniquely American phenomenon perhaps deserves particular attention, and those victims/survivors/families of this uniquely American phenomenon deserve particular recognition due to their involuntary sacrifice for the uniquely American freedom to very easily legally obtain extremely deadly firearms. The attention it deserves is giving more than lip service to prevention. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/31 "2018-02-15T18:25:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why only gun injuries? Military members don’t have to be injured by a gun to get a Purple Heart. Does the second amendment protect those other ways that they got hurt? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why not purple hearts and cash for the survivors for victims of drunk drivers or convicted felons out on parole? Those people died “because our society holds the right of” drinking alcohol / giving convicted criminals second chances about that of the safety of others. Does any amendment allow people to drink and drive, and only make it illegal to actually hit someone while drinking and driving? > [@Shodan](#): > > Isn’t there a price to be paid for the other amendments? Should that cost be shared as well? > > Like I said, Joe Criminal robs a liquor store. He gets caught and goes to prison for five years. He doesn’t go for LWOP, because that is a violation of the Eighth Amendment. Now he gets out and robs my liquor store and stabs me to death. Why doesn’t society share that cost? > > Regards, > Shodan Does any amendment protect the right for Joe Criminal to rob liquor stores, as long as he doesn’t hurt anyone? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Should the victims of auto accidents that happen at speeds greater than 55 MPH be honored / paid because that’s the price we pay to be able to drive at 70 MPH? Is there an amendment that makes hitting people at 55 legal, but not at 70? Nice tries with these false equivalencies, but you aren’t fooling anyone that you have a serious argument. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/32 "2018-02-15T18:35:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Does the second amendment protect those other ways that they got hurt? No, the other amendments protect those other ways that other citizens got hurt. > [@](#): > > Does any amendment protect the right for Joe Criminal to rob liquor stores, as long as he doesn’t hurt anyone? No, there isn’t any Constitutional right to rob liquor stores. > [@](#): > > Is there an amendment that makes hitting people at 55 legal, but not at 70? No, not that either. > [@](#): > > Nice tries with these false equivalencies, but you aren’t fooling anyone that you have a serious argument. I don’t see any false equivalencies. It is an unfortunate side-effect that people die because we have the right to keep and bear arms. The idea seems to be that we should give those people money and honors. It is also an unfortunate side-effect that people die because we don’t put first-time felons in prison for life, and because we have a speed limit of 70 instead of 55 (or 45, or 25). Why do you think that one group should get money and not the others? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/33 "2018-02-15T18:43:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the other amendments protect those other ways that other citizens got hurt.No, there isn’t any Constitutional right to rob liquor stores. No, not that either. > I don’t see any false equivalencies. > > It is an unfortunate side-effect that people die because we have the right to keep and bear arms. The idea seems to be that we should give those people money and honors. It is also an unfortunate side-effect that people die because we don’t put first-time felons in prison for life, and because we have a speed limit of 70 instead of 55 (or 45, or 25). Why do you think that one group should get money and not the others? > > Regards, > Shodan Unfortunate side effect? “This heart medicine may cause acne” is an unfortunate side effect. “Our shampoo tends to thin hair” is an unfortunate side effect. “With enough skill and luck our product can be used to kill scores of people” is _not_ an unfortunate side effect. As euphemisms go, that one is tone-deaf as all hell. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/34 "2018-02-15T18:47:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You _aren’t_ being facetious :eek: I’m not being facetious, not at all. If someone hates black people (or Muslims, or gays, or Christians, or Jews, or whatever), then the knowledge that shooting up a bunch of them is going to lead to big $$$$$ for their surviving families certainly isn’t going to be to the gunman’s liking. Certainly not something to encourage the gunman. Again, it might not be enough to prevent the shooting from happening regardless - in fact, probably wouldn’t be enough - but it would still be a discouragement. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/35 "2018-02-15T18:52:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the other amendments protect those other ways that other citizens got hurt. Huh, a soldier can get a purple heart for getting hit by an IED. What amendment protects the use of IEDs? > [@](#): > > No, there isn’t any Constitutional right to rob liquor stores. No, not that either. Thank you for agreeing. > [@](#): > > I don’t see any false equivalencies. Try reading. > [@](#): > > It is an unfortunate side-effect that people die because we have the right to keep and bear arms. The idea seems to be that we should give those people money and honors. Either that or find ways of limiting those that are harmed by those rights. That’s off the table, so we are left with honoring them for their sacrifice. > [@](#): > > It is also an unfortunate side-effect that people die because we don’t put first-time felons in prison for life, and because we have a speed limit of 70 instead of 55 (or 45, or 25). Why do you think that one group should get money and not the others? Because we can have a discussion about what the best methods of dealing with the criminal justice system in order to decrease crime, we can have discussions about traffic safety, and require people to have licenses to drive, and require car manufacturers to make cars safer. We can’t have a discussion about how to lower gun violence. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/36 "2018-02-15T18:55:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Does the second amendment protect those other ways that they got hurt? > > Does any amendment allow people to drink and drive, and only make it illegal to actually hit someone while drinking and driving? > > Does any amendment protect the right for Joe Criminal to rob liquor stores, as long as he doesn’t hurt anyone? > > Is there an amendment that makes hitting people at 55 legal, but not at 70? > > Nice tries with these false equivalencies, but you aren’t fooling anyone that you have a serious argument. This is really poor analysis on your part. There’s no amendment that allows people to drive drunk and likewise, there’s no amendment that allows people to shoot their former classmates. What we DO have are laws that allow the purchase of alcohol and firearms, and occasionally the people who purchase alcohol or firearms misuse them and harm others. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/37 "2018-02-15T18:55:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Again, it might not be enough to prevent the shooting from happening regardless - in fact, probably wouldn’t be enough - but it would still be a discouragement. If it would do little to nothing to prevent a shooting, then it is of no use whatsoever. “Please accept this medal and small check in the knowledge that there is a minuscule chance that you doing so might make the person who murdered your child feel somewhat bad about it.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/38 "2018-02-15T18:59:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s off the table, so we are left with honoring them for their sacrifice. No, that’s off the table too. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/39 "2018-02-15T19:00:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is really poor analysis on your part. There’s no amendment that allows people to drive drunk Right, which is why it is illegal to do, even if you don’t harm anyone. > [@](#): > > and likewise, there’s no amendment that allows people to shoot their former classmates. No, but there is an amendment that allows someone to do everything required to kill their classmates, and will protect them until they actually pull the trigger. > [@](#): > > What we DO have are laws that allow the purchase of alcohol and firearms, and occasionally the people who purchase alcohol or firearms misuse them and harm others. Right, and when people misuse alcohol in ways that get people killed, we look at how to prevent that in the future. When people misuse guns in ways that people get killed, we shrug our shoulders and say, “Oh, what a tragedy, if only there was something we could do about it.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873/40 "2018-02-15T19:06:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Right, which is why it is illegal to do, even if you don’t harm anyone. > > No, but there is an amendment that allows someone to do everything required to kill their classmates, and will protect them until they actually pull the trigger. > Right, and when people misuse alcohol in ways that get people killed, we look at how to prevent that in the future. When people misuse guns in ways that people get killed, we shrug our shoulders and say, “Oh, what a tragedy, if only there was something we could do about it.” Just like it’s illegal to shoot at your classmates even if you don’t actually harm anyone. How do we “look to prevent that in the future”? Is someone proposing a ban on alcohol, or cars? If not, aren’t they essentially shrugging their shoulders and saying "“Oh, what a tragedy, if only there was something we could do about it.”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-idea-survivors-families-of-mass-shooting-victims-get-same-benefits-and-honors-as-veterans/808873.md?page=3)