# Serious massacre prevented on train by 3 US and 1 Brit passengers in Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 21, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473 "2015-08-21T20:27:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/21 "2015-08-22T11:53:38Z")
How did this terrorist/aspiring mass murderer get an AK-47 in gun-secure Holland? With such strict controls, criminals should not be able to buy a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/22 "2015-08-22T12:09:55Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > … plus one British man status unknown … Here’s a photo of the British gent, identified as Chris Norman, along with a couple of the Americans being honored with medals later that night at a restaurant: [![](https://i.imgur.com/G7aBerL.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/G7aBerL.jpg) That photo is from the Daily Mail link, above. He’s an older man, a civilian, who happens to live in France and jumped in to do his bit. Well done, those chaps! ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/23 "2015-08-22T12:26:31Z")
Pretty amazing story. [The three Americans](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03415/Arras_France_3_her_3415525b.jpg) (Skarlatos, Stone, Sadler). From [The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/08/22/world/europe/ap-eu-france-train-attack.html): > [@](#): > > Anthony Sadler, a senior at Sacramento State University, was traveling with childhood friends Stone, of Carmichael, California, and Alek Skarlatos, a National Guardsman from Roseburg, Oregon, when they heard a gunshot and breaking glass. Sadler told The Associated Press that they saw a train employee sprint down the aisle followed by a gunman with an automatic rifle. > > “As he was cocking it to shoot it, Alek just yells, ‘Spencer, go!’ And Spencer runs down the aisle,” Sadler said. “Spencer makes first contact, he tackles the guy, Alek wrestles the gun away from him, and the gunman pulls out a boxcutter and slices Spencer a few times. And the three of us beat him until he was unconscious.” And the [BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34023361): > [@](#): > > When a French passenger tried to enter a toilet on the train, he encountered the gunman, tried to overpower him and the gun was then fired, Mr Cazeneuve said. > > A French-American passenger was injured by the bullet, and the American passengers intervened shortly afterward, he said. > > “Spencer got to the guy first and grabbed the guy by the neck,” Mr Skarlatos told Sky News. > > "I grabbed the handgun, got that away from the guy and threw it. Then I grabbed the AK-47, which was at his feet, and started muzzle-bumping him in the head with it. > > “Everybody just started beating the guy while Spencer held the chokehold until he went unconscious.” A British IT worker was involved, too. > [@](#): > > Chris Norman, a British man living in France, was also hurt while trying to subdue the attacker. > > “I came in at the end of it all and helped get him under control,” he said at a news conference in Arras. > > “The guy pulled out a cutter and started cutting Spencer - he cut behind his neck and nearly cut his thumb off.” And (sorry) [The Daily Mail](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3206426/U-S-Marines-armed-gunman-onboard-high-speed-train-Amsterdam-Paris.html): > [@](#): > > Skarlatos described Stone’s heroic actions to ITV News in the aftermath of the attack. > > ‘Spencer ran a good ten metres to get to the guy and we didn’t that his gun not working or anything like that,’ he said. ‘Spencer just ran anyway and if anybody would have gotten shot it would have been Spencer for sure and we’re very lucky that nobody got killed, especially Spencer.’ Great job, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/24 "2015-08-22T12:42:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How did this terrorist/aspiring mass murderer get an AK-47 in gun-secure Holland? With such strict controls, criminals should not be able to buy a gun. Oh, it can happen - but it’s much rarer than if the country were knee-deep in guns. In places where guns _are_ widely available, I understand no-one’s very much surprised if there’s an actual mass shooting once a year or more. What’s impressive about this story is that it turns out that the solution to a bad man with a gun is not necessarily a good man with a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/25 "2015-08-22T13:30:25Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > A British IT worker was involved, too. In the old days you had to thwart terrorists analog. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/26 "2015-08-22T14:02:58Z")
Semper fi. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/27 "2015-08-22T17:08:25Z")
Sounds like those guys are going to have a truly _awesome_ remainder of their vacation in France. Gotta expect they’ll get VIP treatment/access everywhere they go! ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/28 "2015-08-22T17:16:56Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How did this terrorist/aspiring mass murderer get an AK-47 in gun-secure Holland? With such strict controls, criminals should not be able to buy a gun. Thoughts are it was the same place the Charlie Hebdo murderers got theirs - near a train station in Belgium, where guns are legal (the estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Belgium is 1,800,0001 to 2,000,000) and thousands of illegal guns are available on the black market. I think recently/now, statistically (including London and Madrid), train travel is more dangerous than airline travel. Due respect to the American servicemen, especially Spencer whose name should appear under ‘Hero’ in next year’s Oxford dictionary. Without their intervention the outcome could’ve been tragic. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/29 "2015-08-22T18:24:37Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Semper fi. Stone is an Airman. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/30 "2015-08-22T21:49:17Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > Oh, it can happen - but it’s much rarer than if the country were knee-deep in guns. In places where guns _are_ widely available, I understand no-one’s very much surprised if there’s an actual mass shooting once a year or more. > > What’s impressive about this story is that it turns out that the solution to a bad man with a gun is not necessarily a good man with a gun. Might have been if the gun hadn’t jammed. Incredible bravery. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/31 "2015-08-22T22:14:21Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Semper fi. I think you mean “Aim High”, “Always Ready, Always There” and, uh, “Go Hornets”. Oh, and “God Save the Queen”. The three guys who jumped the shooter were an Air Force Airman, a National Guardsman, and a Sacramento State student. The fourth man, who helped subdue him, was a Briton. Well done, all four of them. Question for Doper vets - would this action make either of the servicemen eligible for any sort of decoration? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/32 "2015-08-22T22:24:10Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I think you mean “Aim High”, “Always Ready, Always There” and, uh, “Go Hornets”. Oh, and “God Save the Queen”. The three guys who jumped the shooter were an Air Force Airman, a National Guardsman, and a Sacramento State student. The fourth man, who helped subdue him, was a Briton. > > Well done, all four of them. > > Question for Doper vets - would this action make either of the servicemen eligible for any sort of decoration? Looks like the [Soldier’s Medal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier%27s_Medal) for the Army Navy/Marine- Navy and Marine Corps Medal Air Force- Airman’s Medal Coast Guard- Coast Guard Medal > [@](#): > > The criteria for the medal are: "The Soldier’s Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy. > > ETA:The Soldier’s Medal is considered to be equivalent to the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, Airman’s Medal, and the Coast Guard Medal. Nothing about the National Guard. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/33 "2015-08-22T22:26:22Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I think you mean “Aim High”, “Always Ready, Always There” and, uh, “Go Hornets”. Oh, and “God Save the Queen”. The three guys who jumped the shooter were an Air Force Airman, a National Guardsman, and a Sacramento State student. The fourth man, who helped subdue him, was a Briton. > > Well done, all four of them. > > Question for Doper vets - would this action make either of the servicemen eligible for any sort of decoration? Sure…the Navy and Marine Corps Medal. Apparently. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/34 "2015-08-22T22:37:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Nothing about the National Guard. It’s not a separate service. It’s a Reserve Component of either the Air Force or Army (both exist in the National Guard) with full ability for members to receive federal awards. Separate state level awards do exist for National Guards troops since they are both state and federal troops. I’d doubt the chain of command goes that route for something like this. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/35 "2015-08-23T02:23:56Z")
The guy that charged and tackled the terrorist first is out of the hospital. Arm in a sling. They said he required surgery on his hand. His thumb nearly got severed by the terrorist’s Stanley knife. > **[US airman who tackled train terrorist leaves hospital with a wave](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3207243/True-American-hero-airman-tackled-beat-disarmed-Kalashnikov-wielding-terrorist-French-train-treated-tending-stab-wounds-emerges-hospital-humble-wave.html)** > > On Saturday afternoon, Spencer emerged from the central hospital in Lille, France, wearing bandages and a sling - and offered the cameras a humble wave before slipping into a diplomat's black sedan. Interesting that what alerted the men was the racking of the weapon. A sound anyone familiar with guns knows all too well. There’s really no reasonable explanation for hearing that on a train. Other than someone getting ready to shoot. Geez that would be quite a WTF moment for anyone. Just knowing that crazy dude will be coming out with that weapon in seconds. It’s amazing how quickly the men reacted in taking him down. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/36 "2015-08-23T02:32:04Z")
They’re all heroes. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/37 "2015-08-23T02:33:55Z")
The link I just posted has several video interviews with the people involved. The British man’s interview was interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/38 "2015-08-23T14:11:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The link I just posted has several video interviews with the people involved. The British man’s interview was interesting. “Spot of bother on the train today. All taken care of, nothing to make a fuss about. Didn’t miss my connection, that’s the main thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/39 "2015-08-24T02:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > French President Francois Hollande and a bevy of officials are presenting the Americans with the prestigious Legion of Honor on Monday. A French citizen who first came across the gunman near a train bathroom and a British man who joined to help tie up the assailant also are being honored with the award, according to the president’s office. [http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-airman-says-train-attacker-ready-to-fight-to-the-end/ar-BBm1oT2](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-airman-says-train-attacker-ready-to-fight-to-the-end/ar-BBm1oT2) So–the French love America again. Anybody want to take bets on how long it will last this time? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473/40 "2015-08-24T03:17:36Z")
Would it be in order to have the thread title modified to reflect the actual situation, as in, two American servicemen, their friend, and a Brit civilian? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-massacre-prevented-on-train-by-3-us-and-1-brit-passengers-in-europe/728473.md?page=3)