# Serious Questions About the Collapse of Civilization **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 2, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512 "2024-01-02T19:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/101 "2024-01-19T14:42:32Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > it’s true that the bulk of average religious believers are, well, about as newsworthy as average civil servants or shopkeepers so we hardly hear of them. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/102 "2024-01-19T15:01:39Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Whar about a Carrington event just a bit stronger than the one that ocurred in 1859 ? > Wouldn’t it fry all the electricity and electronics, all around the globe? One frightening thing, at a personal level, about a Carrington event is, what do you do if you happen to be traveling a somewhere if it happens? This cheery thought occurred to me when I was in the mini-subway at Atlanta’s airport during a business trip (I live in Montreal). Suddenly there you are in a different country, possibly separated by an ocean in some cases, with some local cash perhaps, a debit card and credit cards that don’t do anything and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/103 "2024-01-19T15:39:01Z")
There is a real example - “[1177 BC the year civilization collapsed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed)” Non-fiction archaeology. The bronze age developed an economy based on international trade. When the trade routes collapsed, civilization went with it. We are in a similar situation today. For most of us our day to day existence relies on three corporations; Walmart, Amazon and Microsoft. A bit of hyperboley there but the essence is my point. Our foodstuffs are imported and rely on a common international infrastructure. Our products are ordered from an international brokerage. All of this relies on a common software system controlled by a single company. If one of these systems fails they all collapse, just as they did in 1177 BC. In that case it is not the elite who will survive, it is the homeless and the indigenous reservation dwellers. The people who already practice survival as a life style. The rest of us wouldn’t last 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/104 "2024-01-19T17:32:57Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I was saying that being “highly” religious correlate heavily with scumbaggery. > You never see “normally” religious people in the news. Are you defining “normally religious people” as the ones you don’t see in the news? How about the ones you see in the news for running the local food pantry, all comers welcome? And I’d class the Old Order Mennonites and Amish as “highly religious”; but I very rarely see them in the news, except occasionally for things like opening a store (also everybody welcome) or as part of a farming topic or because somebody thought they made good scenery for a picture. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > Many atheists on this board refuse to acknowledge this so I have to repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat. But no one is listening Well here is an atheist acknowledging this; for, I believe, the second time in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/105 "2024-01-19T19:05:49Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Well here is an atheist acknowledging this; for, I believe, the second time in this thread. thank you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/106 "2024-01-19T19:38:26Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > For the millionth time, there is an extremist “Christian” white nationalism ascendent in the world today. It shares almost no beliefs or behaviors with most Christians, who may well consider themselves highly religious. And an extremist Muslim fringe also. Which to be fair is pretty prevalent in a few nations. There is an extremist Jewish fringe too. I wouldnt be surprised if Hinduism and other religions also had an extremist fringe. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/107 "2024-01-19T20:25:35Z")
I would be surprised if they don’t. Any sufficiently large group of humans will have an extremist fringe. Sometimes, of course, such fringes cause a whole lot of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/108 "2024-01-19T21:30:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And an extremist Muslim fringe also. Which to be fair is pretty prevalent in a few nations. > > There is an extremist Jewish fringe too. > > I wouldnt be surprised if Hinduism and other religions also had an extremist fringe. You bet they do. All of them. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/109 "2024-01-20T02:35:18Z")
Find your local chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism, and they might also have some answers. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/110 "2024-01-20T03:34:03Z")
Extremist Hindus? Somebody hasn’t been paying attention to India. There’s more than a slight streak of nationalism going on, they haven’t been very shy about announcing it to the world, and there’s definitely some extremists among that set. Extremist Buddhists? Yeah, even there, you can find some in Myanmar ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/111 "2024-01-20T04:21:47Z")
And Sri Lanka, and arguably Thailand, though it’s hard to separate religious from ethnic identity in both those cases. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/112 "2024-01-20T11:23:09Z")
This reminds me of the theme of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, with the implication that the survival of humanity depends on the values and actions of a few exceptional individuals (or corporations) who uphold the principles of reason, individualism, and capitalism, and the collapse of an interconnected civilization leads to a dystopic dark age of chaos and suffering. I don’t disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/113 "2024-01-20T11:27:02Z")
Keeping working on that bunker, bro. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/114 "2024-01-20T19:11:08Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Society for Creative Anachronism Meh. Many SCA people are quite good at crafts, although the non-crafting stick jocks probably outnumber them, but IME precious few of them grow their own food or have skills in that area. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/115 "2024-01-20T19:29:18Z")
The biggest problem I could see the Amish and Mennonites having if society breaks down is short-sighted outsiders raiding their farms and stealing all the food in sight for themselves. And possibly destroying their ability to grow and raise more food ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/116 "2024-01-20T23:46:19Z")
I could also see people in the know doing that at Mormon churches, as well as doing this to other Mormons, who follow 6- to 12-month food storage (and yes, they do rotate and eat it) as part of their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/117 "2024-01-23T22:25:14Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > This reminds me of the theme of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, # “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: _[The Lord of the Rings](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10254806.The_Lord_of_the_Rings)_ and _[Atlas Shrugged](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9365.Atlas_Shrugged)._ One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." > [@MrDibble](#): > > Meh. Many SCA people are quite good at crafts, although the non-crafting stick jocks probably outnumber them, but IME precious few of them grow their own food or have skills in that area. We know how to live without electricity, etc, and we have wool blankets, candles, lanterns, tents, and swords. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/118 "2024-01-23T22:27:24Z")
Correction: you _think_ you know how. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/119 "2024-01-23T23:52:42Z")
Moderating: > [@Chingon](#): > > Correction: you _think_ you know how. This is a personal attack that adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Stop with the superfluous comments now. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512/120 "2024-01-24T05:51:01Z")
Just because I didn’t use ‘we’ doesn’t mean I’m not also in the SCA, and ‘we’ know _nothing_ about living without electricity. ‘We’ know how to _camp_ for a bit without it, but most SCA folk wouldn’t last a week without ice for their drinks (or insulin, come to that). The SCA are not subsistence farmers in some resource-limited country, they are well (over)fed Western hobbyists used to being no more than a few hour’s drive away from the modern world. Very, very few SCAdians are actually medieval lifestylers. Hell, despite appearances I’d argue more are not even crafters than are( unless armour repair counts) I think the SCA is not the reenactment group to look to for this. The mountain men/trapper reenactors are a way better bet - lots of lifestylers there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-questions-about-the-collapse-of-civilization/995512.md?page=7)