# Serious thoughts requested on some 2016 candidates **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295 "2014-11-11T01:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/141 "2014-12-10T16:03:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I admit to a bias against Obama, but again, I’m not just finding things to dislike about him. You’re finding nitpicks and blowing them up, or finding a few genuine mistakes and minor failures and elevating them. > [@](#): > > Several government agencies have fallen down on the job under his watch and in every case his response has been that he didn’t know. If the litany of news stories about these failures stops here, then maybe I’ll reevaluate. But if I was a betting man, I’d bet on several more of these types of stories over the next two years, especially since most of these percolate up from the right-wing media months before the MSM notices. The President has more access to his own administration than World Net Daily and National Review do. If they are finding problems, you’d think he’d be interested in dealing with them before they become a “thing”. In the case of the VA, he was warned a couple of years ago and failed to act. With the IRS, there were complaints more than a year before and his lack of interest was palpable. Then Lois Lerner publicizes what they did and he gets in high moral dudgeon, as if he’s just as outraged as the rest of us. This pattern of behavior has to change. I don’t think this has much to do with reality. It might fit the narrative of various talking heads, but this isn’t really how government works. The VA has been broken for decades, and despite some major fuckups, has improved in some areas. The IRS thing is a non-scandal (like Benghazi, and many of the other supposed “scandals”). Pretty much nothing happened. He’s far from perfect, but if these are his worst “sins”, then he’s our best President in half a century or more (I don’t believe this is so, by the way). What he’s actually had control of – foreign policy, military, executive actions, etc., has been smooth, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/142 "2014-12-10T16:05:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So what I do when looking at Presidential candidates is I look for people who have impressed me governing a state, or a large city, or a department of the federal government(seriously, why so few cabinet officers running these days?), or a large company, or military experience. Howard Dean by all accounts was a fine governor. So was Bill Richardson, plus he ran the Dept. of Energy and was UN representative. Schweitzer’s a stud. Ditto for Mark Warner, although it doesn’t look like he’s interested. O’Malley’s impressive too, actually giving a damn about how well state government functions and using measurable metrics to find out, and making those metrics public. Jim Webb is intriguing too for his success as a military officer and cabinet official. And I’d give Joe Biden a flyer too, since he’s been VP for eight years and is honest to a fault, something else we’ve been lacking for awhile. > > On the GOP side, you’ve got some pretty impressive governors there too. Jindal went a long war towards reforming Louisiana’s corrupt political culture. Scott Walker has done a great job with education and the budget. Mike Pence has continued the good policies of the very impressive Mitch Daniels administration. Paul Ryan doesn’t have much leadership experience but is an impressive budget wonk. Not sure if it’s enough, but I’ll give him a hearing. I look at issues. Who is going to get us into wars and cause thousands of Americans to die? Who isn’t? Who wants to gut the social safety net? Whose economic policy consists solely of “tax cuts”?0 Who wants to raise the minimum wage to a reasonable level? Who will appoint Supreme Court justices that aren’t nutjobs, idiots, or reactionaries? Who actually believes in science? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/143 "2014-12-10T20:49:06Z")
You can decide that the President is doing a fine job managing the government, but by choosing a President primarily based on issues say that you really don’t care anyway whether a President is up to the job or not. I care about issues, but I also care about character and competence. We can afford a certain amount of idiocy and corruption in a Congress with 535 members. We can’t afford that in a branch where all the power of that branch resides in one person. Of course, liberals seem to have solved that problem partially by absolving that one man of any responsibility whatsoever for what goes on in the executive branch. So we actually have a fourth, unelected branch that holds all the real power and has no accountability. Great “innovation”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/144 "2014-12-10T21:51:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You can decide that the President is doing a fine job managing the government, but by choosing a President primarily based on issues say that you really don’t care anyway whether a President is up to the job or not. Issues (or some issues) are competence (in my view). If someone thinks we should go to war with Iran, they are incompetent. If someone thinks tax cuts that favor the rich are the best way to help the economy, then they’re incompetent. Some issues might not give an indication on competence, but I place far more emphasis on the ones that do. > [@](#): > > Of course, liberals seem to have solved that problem partially by absolving that one man of any responsibility whatsoever for what goes on in the executive branch. So we actually have a fourth, unelected branch that holds all the real power and has no accountability. Great “innovation”. There’s no point in bringing up this Halperinesque-punditry-foolishness with me – it’s just nonsense, in my opinion. It makes no sense to me. It’s a cartoon view of the President, and of liberals. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/145 "2014-12-10T22:40:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Issues (or some issues) are competence (in my view). If someone thinks we should go to war with Iran, they are incompetent. If someone thinks tax cuts that favor the rich are the best way to help the economy, then they’re incompetent. Some issues might not give an indication on competence, but I place far more emphasis on the ones that do. > . Issues aren’t completely unrelated to competence, but especially for liberals, if you want new programs, you need someone who can implement them successfully. The ACA rollout validated every conservative critique of government, and the President was well aware before the ACA rollout that contracting procedures needed reform. He was elected in large part on a government reform message, and he hasn’t done anything to reform the government. O’Malley’s use of metrics to measure how government is performing and making those metrics public, good or bad, is an example of real reform. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/146 "2014-12-10T22:42:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The ACA rollout validated every conservative critique of government Everything about the ACA since the rollout has done the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/147 "2014-12-10T22:56:34Z")
That depends on what you wanted out of the law. We obviously have a few million happy customers who are getting insurance for the first time. How do the other 290 million feel about it? They are the ones paying for it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/148 "2014-12-10T23:09:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That depends on what you wanted out of the law. We obviously have a few million happy customers who are getting insurance for the first time. How do the other 290 million feel about it? They are the ones paying for it. They are quite divided. Most do not want to repeal it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/149 "2014-12-12T17:20:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That depends on what you wanted out of the law. We obviously have a few million happy customers who are getting insurance for the first time. How do the other 290 million feel about it? They are the ones paying for it. How so? Many of the 290 million were on Medicare, enjoying government-subsidized insurance. How do they get to wag their fingers at the newly insured as being leeches? Many of the newly-insured are paying full freight for their insurance. Many couldn’t buy before because of pre-existing conditions. Many are now free to pursue other careers instead of being chained to their old job because of insurance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/150 "2014-12-13T01:42:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They are quite divided. Most do not want to repeal it. Conditional on making major changes to the law. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/151 "2014-12-13T02:05:33Z")
_That_ again? Really now? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/152 "2014-12-13T04:22:32Z")
I know. Much like the President’s competence, the law is a net plus for Democrats, as proven by the fact that Democrats control so many states and Congress and the White House. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/153 "2014-12-13T13:23:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I know. Much like the President’s competence, the law is a net plus for Democrats, as proven by the fact that Democrats control so many states and Congress and the White House. You know there’s no point in responding to silly stuff like this, right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/154 "2014-12-13T18:03:47Z")
:smack: Bless your heart. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/155 "2014-12-16T18:50:01Z")
He wasn’t part of this thread, but Jeb is in: > **[Jeb Bush to 'actively explore' 2016 presidential bid | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/politics/bush-explore-presidential-bid/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush has decided to “actively explore” a presidential bid. This changes things a ton on the GOP side. With Jeb’s name recognition and donor base, there’s only likely to be one “anti-Bush” likely to emerge from the field, and it will have to be a Tea Partier. Chris Christie might as well just not even bother now. Jeb’s going to own the GOP non-Tea Party vote. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/156 "2014-12-16T18:57:58Z")
To be perfectly accurate, he’s just saying he’s going to “actively explore” the possibility. Maybe just to get his name in the news twice. What’s up with this exploration crap anyway? (and to be fair, Dems do it too) They form “exploratory committees”. What do they do? Sit around and say “yowsuh, we think you oughtta run!”. Or are they like Lewis and Clark and set off on foot to gauge the public interest? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/157 "2014-12-16T19:12:17Z")
Bush vs Clinton. How very depressing. I don’t buy Jeb in a cake walk. His father was a one-termer and his brother was a disaster. There is a whole lot of negativity attached to the name. The fundraising advantage will scare some of the other candidates, but that still isn’t a guarantee. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/158 "2014-12-16T19:27:29Z")
Jeb Bush would stand NO chance. Family name is utterly unelectable in presidential elections from 2008-onwards. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/159 "2014-12-16T19:34:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Jeb Bush would stand NO chance. Family name is utterly unelectable in presidential elections from 2008-onwards. I wouldn’t count him out. The establishment wing of the GOP wants to get behind somebody and do it quickly so that they can easily pick off the Tea side one by one like Romney did last time. I can’t see Bush as less likely to win than Rubio or Christie. Things could get interesting if the establishment side has 3 guys running and the Tea side settles on Cruz or Paul early. All of this is moot, Hillary would mop the floor with any of them, barring scandal or health issues. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295/160 "2014-12-16T21:28:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I wouldn’t count him out. The establishment wing of the GOP wants to get behind somebody and do it quickly so that they can easily pick off the Tea side one by one like Romney did last time. I can’t see Bush as less likely to win than Rubio or Christie. Things could get interesting if the establishment side has 3 guys running and the Tea side settles on Cruz or Paul early. > > All of this is moot, Hillary would mop the floor with any of them, barring scandal or health issues. Jeb might have all the money in the world backing him up, but I can’t see him having a serious chance at the GOP nomination. His stands on immigration and Common Core make him anathema with most of the base right from the get-go. The GOP has moved rapidly to the right during the Obama years. Jeb last ran for office in 2002. The rust is thick on him, and he’s lost touch with today’s GOP. By comparison, when Nixon ran for President in 1968, it had only been six years since he ran for CA governor, and he’d been a very active campaign surrogate for Goldwater in 1964. The big loser in all this is Rubio. His donor base is basically a subset of Jeb’s donor base, and as long as Jeb’s even talking about running, let alone committing to it, Rubio’s not going to have much money coming in, which means he has to wait to get started on his campaign. I didn’t give him much of a chance to begin with, after the way he was basically forced to renounce his own immigration bill, but this pretty much seals the deal, IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serious-thoughts-requested-on-some-2016-candidates/704295.md?page=9)