# Seriously, Annie-Xmas, shut up about adoption and serial killers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652 "2011-05-12T14:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/1 "2011-05-12T14:42:54Z")
You don’t know what you’re talking about. You have been trying to draw a link between adoption and serial killers for years on this board. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8646452&postcount=30), for instance, > [@](#): > > When a top authority like John Douglas of the FBI’s unit that handles serial killings writes **"Most serial killers were adopted,**" that’s food for thought. Adopted children have been abused, tortured and murdered. There’s also a dark side for the adopted parents–the biological parents can redeem the child, and this has lead to some nasty court battles. and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9211267&postcount=277), > [@](#): > > Every anti-abortion person who talks about adoption being a God given way to give a wonderful family the gift of life and love. > > Adoptions are not always the best thing. Adopted babies are tortured, abused and killed. Adopted children have no sense of their biological family and grow up with a huge piece missing. A woman who has an abortion has closure. A woman who gives up a child for adoption will wonder for the rest of her life how it turned out. She gets “thrown out with the bathwater.” Once the adoption is finalized, she is expendible, and is treated like she is dead. > > **In his book “Mind Hunter” John Douglas, FBI serial killer expert, writes “Berkowitz, like a number of serial killers, was raised in an adoptive family.”** and also [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11960705&postcount=101). > [@](#): > > ``` > Bolding added--Adoption is definitely a major factor in serial killers. MANY were adopted. > > ``` That last time, I and others pointed out over and over that your cites show correlation and not causation, you [still went on](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11962154&postcount=141) to say: > [@](#): > > **ALL I said is that experts agree that adoption is a causation factor in the making of a serial killer.** Whether it’s bad genes or growing up without a biological bond to your family is debatable. But my main point is that adoption is NOT always a la-la land where everything ends up perfectly. It is [pointed out further to you](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11962313&postcount=149) that _you have not shown any kind of causation_, which you ignored. Hoping against hope that a light had dawned, I dropped the subject. No such luck, though, you come back [a few months later](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12661113&postcount=29), > [@](#): > > Since more babies would be adopted, **and adoption is a causation factor in creating serial killers,** the rates of serial killing would increase. and now [today](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13791078&postcount=730) with the same false claim. > [@](#): > > **BTW, all the experts agree that adoption is a factor in creating serial killers.** Cite. > > But the anti-abortion protestors do not bring that fact up. Not one cite you have _ever_ given has shown any kind of causation. My conclusion is that you do not actually understand the meaning of the word “causation,” so let me try to explain it to you. CORRELATION is when two events happen in proximity to each other, but neither causes the other, rather they are both caused by outside factors. CAUSATION is when one factor CAUSES the other factor, or outcome. (Get it?) Please, I am begging you, give us a cite that shows CAUSATION between adoption and serial killing. Not CORRELATION, that they are both the result out outside factors that may be causative of both of them, but CAUSATION between the two, that adoption DIRECTLY CAUSES PEOPLE TO BECOME SERIAL KILLERS. Please please please show us this cite. Wait, no, don’t bother looking for it BECAUSE IT DOESN’T EXIST. And since it doesn’t exist PLEASE FUCKING STOP MAKING THIS BLATANTLY FALSE CLAIM. If you are too dumb to understand the material you are quoting, then STOP FUCKING QUOTING IT. You are making yourself look like an idiot, and you are damaging your own argument. The only person you are impressing with this bullshit is **ZPG Zealot** , and believe me that is nothing to brag about. So please, stop. Just fucking stop. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/2 "2011-05-12T14:44:50Z")
And I thought **ZPG Zealot** had a creepy outlook on adoption! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/3 "2011-05-12T15:05:16Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And I thought **ZPG Zealot** had a creepy outlook on adoption! In ZPG’s defense, she is from a culture where children were violently removed from the families and adopted out to “good christian homes” [and in the bad old days the parents were frequently killed in the process] in a form of racial cleansing. But given the number of adopted kids who don’t go all stabby, it really does fall to a question of nature vs nurture. I won’t argue that some adopted kids [when adopted past 1 year or 2 years old] do have a slight possibility of mental disorder from abuse but to willynilly claim that adoption will cause psychological damage is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/4 "2011-05-12T15:07:06Z")
If Woody Allen adopted a child, who then grew up to become a serial killer, would that hit the **Annie-Xmas** trifecta? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/5 "2011-05-12T15:10:44Z")
Everyone knows it’s not adoption that drives one to be a serial killer. It’s handshaking. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/6 "2011-05-12T15:15:04Z")
It is an odd thing to be fixated on. I mean, like adopted children don’t have enough to worry about? Serial killers? Come on, Annie… ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/7 "2011-05-12T15:20:02Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > In ZPG’s defense, she is from a culture where children were violently removed from the families and adopted out to “good christian homes” [and in the bad old days the parents were frequently killed in the process] in a form of racial cleansing. What culture is this? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/8 "2011-05-12T15:23:32Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > What culture is this? Roma, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/9 "2011-05-12T15:40:02Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Roma, I believe. I would have gone with batshit crazy, but I’m not sure about removing children and killing the parents in the batshit crazy culture. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/10 "2011-05-12T15:55:32Z")
_furtively glances around to make sure there are no adopted people sneaking up_ ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/11 "2011-05-12T16:00:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _furtively glances around to make sure there are no adopted people sneaking up_ _Tiptoes behind **RNATB** , grinning maniacally_ ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/12 "2011-05-12T16:07:14Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Everyone knows it’s not adoption that drives one to be a serial killer. It’s handshaking. No, no, no. Handshaking leads to serial _raping_. Handshaker: Wanna play the rape game? Helpless Female: No! Handshaker: That’s the spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Lorski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lorski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/13 "2011-05-12T16:08:20Z")
My SIL adopted our niece 18 years ago. She was completely accepted and as one of the clan. In fact the whole fam damily arrived en masse at the hospital to give blood for her operation when she was a week old. (Gave the nurses quite a start, there were a lot of us) She is aware that she was adopted. She is currently moving into a house a few houses down from me. I have no fear whatsoever that she is going to slit my throat or anything like that. My best friend growing up was adopted also. Never showed any murderous tendacies. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/14 "2011-05-12T16:10:03Z")
Seriously, though, what a load of claptrap. I will agree that every adopted person I have known has had a period, usually during adolesence, when s/he has dealt with issues regarding their adoption. It’s natural. The majority of us get over it. Do I know adoptees that have serious psych issues? Of course. In a family with 4 adopted kids, every one has mental illness not caused by the adoption, rather caused by the trauma of FAS and two of them being ‘crack babies’ and subsequent abuse at the hands of their biological mother. Once landing in a stable home, their illnesses that had been somewhat hidden during the abuse came to the forefront, as they had no idea what to do. Now, 6 years later, only one minor child remains in the adopted household. Two are adults, frequently in contact with their adopted mother, but on SSI due to their mental illnesses. The last minor had to go back into the foster care system, as she was almost too broken by what she had put on her as an infant. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/15 "2011-05-12T16:10:25Z")
> [@Lorski](#): > > My SIL adopted our niece 18 years ago. She was completely accepted and as one of the clan. In fact the whole fam damily arrived en masse at the hospital to give blood for her operation when she was a week old. (Gave the nurses quite a start, there were a lot of us) She is aware that she was adopted. She is currently moving into a house a few houses down from me. I have no fear whatsoever that she is going to slit my throat or anything like that. My best friend growing up was adopted also. Never showed any murderous tendacies. Well if they showed you their murderous tendencies before hand it would really screw up their whole plan, now wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lorski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lorski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/16 "2011-05-12T16:14:26Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Well if they showed you their murderous tendencies before hand it would really screw up their whole plan, now wouldn’t it? Heh yea but they have had over 18 years in which to do me in, so… guess I’m safe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/17 "2011-05-12T16:20:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _furtively glances around to make sure there are no adopted people sneaking up_ Yeah, it’s too bad for you all that it’s so hard to tell the adopted ones just by looking… ---
**Author:** ![Lorski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lorski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/18 "2011-05-12T16:22:26Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > _Tiptoes behind **RNATB** , grinning maniacally_ Just saw this. Love it. Do you also have the upraised, gleaming butcher knife? Muwahahahahaa… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/19 "2011-05-12T16:24:54Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Yeah, it’s too bad for you all that it’s so hard to tell the adopted ones just by looking… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/20 "2011-05-12T16:29:25Z")
> [@Lorski](#): > > Heh yea but they have had over 18 years in which to do me in, so… guess I’m safe. 😉 That’s what they **want** you to think. Lulling you into a false sense of security. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=2)