# Seriously, Annie-Xmas, shut up about adoption and serial killers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652 "2011-05-12T14:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/341 "2011-05-18T18:50:59Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I’ve wondered a few times if \*\*ZPG \*\*isn’t actually Roma and is just trying to create prejudice towards the Roma people. With all her statements about the way “her culture” behaves, it almost seems like she wants the reaction to be “Roma culture sure is fucked up. What a bunch of lunatics.” I haven’t wondered about whether or not she’s trying to create anti-Roma prejudice, but I have wondered whether or not she’s Roma at all. It just seems to be one of those Munchausen-by-Internet things to claim oppression because of membership in a very secretive and misunderstood culture. And I certainly do not believe that anything she says reflects the majority of Roma culture. I assume that if she IS Roma, she’s a lunatic AND Roma, not a lunatic BECAUSE she’s Roma. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/342 "2011-05-18T19:58:54Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > AHAHAHA! OK, you had me going for a while, but now I see you for the fuckheaded troll you are. Well-played, sir (I’m going to assume you’re a lonely middle-aged man from here on out). **This** Seriously, I figured it out a lonnng time ago. ZPG isn’t a batshit, insane person. She’s a fucking troll getting all of your goats and trying to get as many “YOU’RE FUCKING INSANE!” reactions as she can. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/343 "2011-05-18T20:34:30Z")
I was wondering where my goat went. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/344 "2011-05-18T20:38:18Z")
Gypsies stole my goat! ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/345 "2011-05-18T21:36:52Z")
(I can’t believe I am doing this.) ZPG: My children were ‘stranger-adopted.’ They were born to a mother who didn’t/couldn’t care for them and their father left shortly after they were born never to be heard from again. They had a grandma who helped out who unfortunately died. They had several aunts and uncles. Only one set of these wanted them and this set abused them. So, they had no family to care for them. What would you have recommended for them? Should they just be killed? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/346 "2011-05-19T01:22:51Z")
So, just _giving_ your goat away, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/347 "2011-05-19T01:34:57Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > So, they had no family to care for them. What would you have recommended for them? Should they just be killed? If I understand correctly they should be taken care of, but not coddled by being “loved”, and carefully instructed to call you ‘Mr. Paranoia.’ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/348 "2011-05-19T01:41:34Z")
**ZPG Zealot** – sociopaths are usually born that way. For those who aren’t, they usually have grown up in families where they were abused, not _loved_. BTW, my family loved me – but that doesn’t mean they put up with misbehavior. In fact, I’d say the majority of people I know were loved by their parents – and not a single solitary one of them is a sociopath. (This includes people who were -gasp!- _adopted_.) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/349 "2011-05-19T03:20:51Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > If I understand correctly they should be taken care of, but not coddled by being “loved”, and carefully instructed to call you ‘Mr. Paranoia.’ No, no. A nice orphanarium is far preferable. ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/350 "2011-05-19T04:44:26Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > But do you smoke and if being adopted makes a person a serial killer, does calling her “aunt” want to make you hit someone? I smoke rarely and I do often want to smack sense into people, so I guess **ZPG Zealot** was right! ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/351 "2011-05-19T04:48:24Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > No, no. A nice orphanarium is far preferable. Where the only coddling you get is Double Soup Tuesdays. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/352 "2011-05-19T04:52:13Z")
Wait – should I address my great aunts and uncles as “Great-Uncle Joe” and “Great Aunt Mary”? You know, to avoid confusion. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/353 "2011-05-19T14:32:15Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > You totally didn’t answer my question. Let me put it another way. If the parents of a 10 year old kid suddenly finds out that their kid was switched at birth with another, do those parents have a duty to tell the kid to stop calling them Mom and Dad, even though that is all the child has ever known? Because you keep twisting this around to talk about children raised by siblings, aunts and uncles, or grandparents. Calling those relatives by their normal titles may be appropriate. But what of the kids who only know their adoptive family as their family? Most adopted children have no biological relatives able to care for them - if it weren’t for their non-biologically related adoptive parents they would have _nobody_. These children are not stolen away from their birth parents, they are given up willingly. There is a difference. > > Also, I don’t need a DNA test to have proof that my parents are my parents. I have proof of that every time I speak to them - there is a bond of love between us and no test could prove that wrong. They have always been there for me - they are my Mom and Dad no matter what the biology says. Why should I be interested in denying adopted children that same sense of belonging? > > You do realize that the vast majority of serial killers were not adopted, right? I can’t imagine why the people involved would not want to change how they address each other to reflect this new information. If it happened why can’t they just deal with and move on. If the love you say is still there it should make no difference if the 18 year old refers to them as Mr. and Mrs. X, my guardians whom I love dearly, rather than Mr. and Mrs. X who are my parents. I’m curious why you would say such a person would have nobody just because they do not have someone to call mother or father. There is much more to family than a mother and father. For some people, friendships are more important than family anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/354 "2011-05-19T14:37:42Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > (I can’t believe I am doing this.) > > ZPG: > > My children were ‘stranger-adopted.’ They were born to a mother who didn’t/couldn’t care for them and their father left shortly after they were born never to be heard from again. They had a grandma who helped out who unfortunately died. They had several aunts and uncles. Only one set of these wanted them and this set abused them. > > So, they had no family to care for them. What would you have recommended for them? Should they just be killed? Situations like you have described are the reason legal guardians exist for orphan children. The difference between that older system and the modern adoption concept is that guardians are honest about the children’s origins. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/355 "2011-05-19T14:46:49Z")
Guys, there’s no use discussing this with her. This is a person who believes that the reason we need to be honest about childrens’ origins is so that people don’t have to interact with adopted people if they don’t wish to. She’s a bigot and not a very nice person. What she thinks is the appropriate way for adoption to be handled is different from how any normal person would imagine. It’s a bit humorous because she obviously has no concept of how adoptive families work in America in the 21st century, but it’s kind of sad, too. Certainly, there’s no way for any of us to relate to it or begin to understand her mindset…you could go 50 pages of discussion with her and it will never make any more sense than it does right now. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/356 "2011-05-19T14:50:21Z")
> [@random6x7](#): > > Wow… just wow. > > Out of morbid curiosity, **ZPG Zealot** , how do you feel about the tradition of calling family friends “aunt” or “uncle”? I’ve never done that myself, but I would sometimes introduce my mom’s best friend as my aunt, since that was all around easiest and also best explained my relationship with her. I mean, you can call your uncle’s wife aunt, right? She has no blood ties with you. > > You guys, I wonder what would happen if we told **ZPG Zealot** about those cultures where children call their parents the same title that they use for everyone in their parents’ age group? I would refer to friends of the family as just that. As for an uncle’s wife, an aunt’s husband, etc., how I refer to them depends on what language I am speaking at the time and the degree of formality involved. In my Romany dialect there are actually separate words to describe the different type of relative based on how they are related (by blood or marriage or both). In all formal introductions in Romany, my uncle’s wife would be referred to as Uncle \_\_\_\_ wife, not Aunt \_\_\_\_ . I would use that for formal situations in English or Serbian also. Informally, I might refer to someone as Uncle \_\_\_\_ or Aunt \_\_\_\_\_ when speaking in English with sometimes who does address them by that title. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/357 "2011-05-19T14:53:14Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Guys, there’s no use discussing this with her. This is a person who believes that the reason we need to be honest about childrens’ origins is so that people don’t have to interact with adopted people if they don’t wish to. She’s a bigot and not a very nice person. What she thinks is the appropriate way for adoption to be handled is different from how any normal person would imagine. It’s a bit humorous because she obviously has no concept of how adoptive families work in America in the 21st century, but it’s kind of sad, too. Certainly, there’s no way for any of us to relate to it or begin to understand her mindset…you could go 50 pages of discussion with her and it will never make any more sense than it does right now. No, I believe the reason we need to be honest about children’s orgins is because it is best for the children and society as a whole. The fact that so many adoptees and adopters get so freaked out by simple honest statements indicates how dark and ugly the practice actually is. Also, removing the opportunity to lie about the children’s origins would probably decrease the number of people trying to adopt hence lowing the demand for infants which would do wonders at reducing the corruption and abuse in the system. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/358 "2011-05-19T15:08:18Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No, I believe the reason we need to be honest about children’s orgins is because it is best for the children and society as a whole. **The fact that so many adoptees and adopters get so freaked out by simple honest statements indicates how dark and ugly the practice actually is.** Also, removing the opportunity to lie about the children’s origins would probably decrease the number of people trying to adopt hence lowing the demand for infants which would do wonders at reducing the corruption and abuse in the system. Freaked out by what “simple and honest” statements? Yours? Your view is neither simple or honest. I am not at all freaked out by my adoption. My parents -yes, PARENTS- were nothing but honest and upfront about my origins and my adoption. I’m pretty sure I am a BETTER person than I might have been BECAUSE I was adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/359 "2011-05-19T15:59:27Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I would refer to friends of the family as just that. As for an uncle’s wife, an aunt’s husband, etc., how I refer to them depends on what language I am speaking at the time and the degree of formality involved. In my Romany dialect there are actually separate words to describe the different type of relative based on how they are related (by blood or marriage or both). In all formal introductions in Romany, my uncle’s wife would be referred to as Uncle \_\_\_\_ wife, not Aunt \_\_\_\_ . I would use that for formal situations in English or Serbian also. Informally, I might refer to someone as Uncle \_\_\_\_ or Aunt \_\_\_\_\_ when speaking in English with sometimes who does address them by that title. What form of torture did they use to compel you to do this? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/360 "2011-05-19T16:40:06Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No, I believe the reason we need to be honest about children’s orgins is because it is best for the children and society as a whole. The fact that so many adoptees and adopters get so freaked out by simple honest statements indicates how dark and ugly the practice actually is. Also, removing the opportunity to lie about the children’s origins would probably decrease the number of people trying to adopt hence lowing the demand for infants which would do wonders at reducing the corruption and abuse in the system. You actually did say that. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12025911&postcount=331) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12026693&postcount=352). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=19)