# Seriously, Annie-Xmas, shut up about adoption and serial killers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652 "2011-05-12T14:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/81 "2011-05-12T20:18:39Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > But there is something absolutely evil in my mind about looking at a defenseless child and saying, okay, I’ll make sure they have food and don’t get raped, but only if they agree to call me mom or dad. I would agree if I thought anyone actually did this. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/82 "2011-05-12T20:38:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And look how well that turned out. We may not have proof that being adopted makes you a serial killer but we do have one anecdote, ZPG, that being adopted makes you crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/83 "2011-05-12T20:40:26Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Serial killers are also more likely to be male than female. Therefore all baby boys will grow up to be be serial killers. They are disproportionately gay or bisexual, too, but I doubt **Annie X-mas** is going to push that idea nearly as hard. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/84 "2011-05-12T20:41:39Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I do not remotely think it is best to leave a child with biological parents who abuse him or her. There are many alternatives. Other family members for example. You know family is a lot more than just a mother and father. I was raised largely by my aunt and her husband because well quite frankly I despised my parents, but it never occurred to me that my parents (the woman in whose utersus I was incubated and the man who provided the sperm) did not exist or that I should refer to my aunt as anything other than Auntie. I have known individuals raised in good orphanages and they are some of the finest people I know. Legal guardianship by a sane indivdiual or is another option. But there is something absolutely evil in my mind about looking at a defenseless child and saying, okay, I’ll make sure they have food and don’t get raped, but only if they agree to call me mom or dad. Do you consider your case a successful example of adoption or not? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/85 "2011-05-12T20:55:45Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > But there is something absolutely evil in my mind about looking at a defenseless child and saying, okay, I’ll make sure they have food and don’t get raped, but only if they agree to call me mom or dad. Who the hell does that? Where do some of you people come up with this shit? Look, there are good and bad people in the world. Bad parents can have their own kids and bad parents can adopt. Same with good parents. Most people I know who were adopted tended to have good parents. Adoption can be expensive and long process. Parents who do that are making an overt effort to get a child and tend to be more interested in their kids’ welfare. I have witnessed plenty of biological parents being complete shits to their kids. Of course that is anecdotal and it is a big world with all sorts of people. I have no doubt there are horrid adoptive parents out there too. Also, I think the metric changes when it is foster kids (which some people see as free money from the state) or kids left for adoption due to any of a variety of problems. Point is, making the case that adoption itself is responsible for some ills better have a lot more evidence than is being brought here because it makes no logical sense. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/86 "2011-05-12T21:05:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Who the hell does that? > > Where do some of you people come up with this shit? No one. **ZPG Zealot** is insane. She does not represent the viewpoint of any people other than herself. She also thinks that a woman shaking hands with a man is the same as her being raped, that she is a fortune teller, that infanticide is a lovely thing and that vampires exist. Trying to have any kind of rational discussion with her is the same as you trying to teach your dog to recite Hamlet. All you can do is point and laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/87 "2011-05-12T21:14:20Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I would have gone with batshit crazy, but I’m not sure about removing children and killing the parents in the batshit crazy culture. No, no, you’re right. While she may claim to be Roma, she also claims to believe that every man who offers her their hand (for a handshake) is raping her (no, really). To me, that’s batshit crazy no matter how you cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/88 "2011-05-12T21:23:55Z")
I’d like to see some comparisons between adoptees and children raised in orphanages in terms of mental health and happiness. Statistics, please. **ZPG**? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/89 "2011-05-12T21:33:08Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > No one. **ZPG Zealot** is insane. She does not represent the viewpoint of any people other than herself. She also thinks that a woman shaking hands with a man is the same as her being raped, that she is a fortune teller, that infanticide is a lovely thing and that vampires exist. Also that shooting a pregnant woman who wants you to pay child support should be considered justifiable homicide. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/90 "2011-05-12T21:42:41Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > But there is something absolutely evil in my mind Correct. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/91 "2011-05-12T21:45:22Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Do you consider your case a successful example of adoption or not? I was not “adopted” I was not taken away from my family or my people. Once again from the top, the nuclear family is not the only family form. Hell, it isn’t even the most common in human history or cultural. I did not call people mother and father who were not actually the direct participants of the biological act that created me. I knew who my parents were. I just didn’t like them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/92 "2011-05-12T21:47:00Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > So if I join the [Adopt-A-Highway](http://www.adoptahighway.net/?gclid=CMX3w6mb46gCFcsZQgod1EaHDg) program, there will be more fatal accidents on the stretch I sponsor? :eek: Well, if you don’t do a good job raising your adopted highway, it’ll grow up all dark and twisted… ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/93 "2011-05-12T21:48:51Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I was not “adopted” I was not taken away from my family or my people. Once again from the top, the nuclear family is not the only family form. Hell, it isn’t even the most common in human history or cultural. I did not call people mother and father who were not actually the direct participants of the biological act that created me. I knew who my parents were. I just didn’t like them. Did people who were not your biological parents have legal responsibility for your health and wellbeing? If so, you were adopted. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/94 "2011-05-12T21:53:51Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I would agree if I thought anyone actually did this. Exactly how to you think adoption works in the United States. Adopted children have to fight for their original birth certificates. Their birth certicates are reissued after adoption with their adopters not their parents’ names. If adopters really cared about children they would try to make it easier for their actual parents to care for them and let them be raised with their family not strangers. It’s not about what is best for the children. It’s about making life easier for narcissism deluded infertile people. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/95 "2011-05-12T21:55:41Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I was raised largely by my aunt and her husband because well quite frankly I despised my parents If only you’d been adopted things might have turned out marginally less batshit fucking crazy for you. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/96 "2011-05-12T22:00:35Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Did people who were not your biological parents have legal responsibility for your health and wellbeing? If so, you were adopted. Define legal. By U.S. law probably, I know my mother got money from various social agencies because of the children she had. I am going to assume they would not have given her welfare, food stamps, etc. if had she not had some sort legal custody. Within in our family and community, her and my father’s rights to the children were curtailed because it was common knowledge they were lousy parents. If they tried to do something stupid (like one time when they wanted me to get married) or jeopardized our health or wellbeing, it was stopped immediately by other family members. And once again from the top, the modern adoption system where children are given to strangers is not the same as letting them be raised by other family members. No tried to change my name or deny who I was or who my people where. That’s a far cry from having my birth certificate falisifed as occurred in adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/97 "2011-05-12T22:00:49Z")
[quote=“MissTake, post:30, topic:581652”] Being adopted has effed up my ability to select proper word usage, sorry. It’s difficult, you know, to decide what word to use when I’m compiling my list of people to murder. [QUOTE] You’re adopted? MURDERER!!! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/98 "2011-05-12T22:05:10Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Define legal. By U.S. law probably, I know my mother got money from various social agencies because of the children she had. I am going to assume they would not have given her welfare, food stamps, etc. if had she not had some sort legal custody. Within in our family and community, her and my father’s rights to the children were curtailed because it was common knowledge they were lousy parents. If they tried to do something stupid (like one time when they wanted me to get married) or jeopardized our health or wellbeing, it was stopped immediately by other family members. I apologize - I thought you had been legally adopted by your aunt. Do I recall correctly that you had legal guardianship over your brother? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/99 "2011-05-12T22:12:28Z")
When you are first born, everyone is a stranger. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/100 "2011-05-12T22:23:37Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I apologize - I thought you had been legally adopted by your aunt. Do I recall correctly that you had legal guardianship over your brother? Over my youngest brother yes. Our father was dead and I was the person in the family most difficult for the social worker who wanted to put him up for adoption to prove unfit as a guardian. Actually, a cousin did most of the baby and toddler stuff because I really don’t like un-potty-trained pre-socialized kids. I currently have a temporary guardianship agreement with one of my brothers over his son because he works off-shore. I’m far from happy about this, but somebody had to do it and that is what family is about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=6)