# Seriously, Annie-Xmas, shut up about adoption and serial killers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652 "2011-05-12T14:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/101 "2011-05-12T22:23:54Z")
Don’t forget calling the cops when she found out her nephew might be sexually active – because she just KNEW that the girl’s parents were going to accuse him of rape and throw him in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/102 "2011-05-12T22:24:09Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > In ZPG’s defense, she is from a culture where children were violently removed from the families and adopted out to “good christian homes” [and in the bad old days the parents were frequently killed in the process] in a form of racial cleansing. But then she goes all half cocked and generalizes it to everyone. Stuff like this: > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And the adoption community completely ignoring, denying and destroying natural family and community bonds is all loving sunshine? There isn’t one monolithic evil adoption community bent on a path of destruction and kid destroying. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/103 "2011-05-12T22:30:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Don’t forget calling the cops when she found out her nephew might be sexually active – because she just KNEW that the girl’s parents were going to accuse him of rape and throw him in jail. The girl’s father threatened to do just that when he found out his little angel was my nephew’s little sexbuddy. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/104 "2011-05-12T22:33:51Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Over my youngest brother yes. Our father was dead and I was the person in the family most difficult for the social worker who wanted to put him up for adoption to prove unfit as a guardian. Actually, a cousin did most of the baby and toddler stuff because I really don’t like un-potty-trained pre-socialized kids. I currently have a temporary guardianship agreement with one of my brothers over his son because he works off-shore. I’m far from happy about this, but somebody had to do it and that is what family is about. Yep. Family should always step in when possible - one of my cousins was adopted by her aunt when her mother (the cousin’s mother, the aunt’s sister) died suddenly (the father had disappeared much earlier). ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/105 "2011-05-12T22:56:02Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > No, no, you’re right. While she may claim to be Roma, she also claims to believe that every man who offers her their hand (for a handshake) is raping her (no, really). Wait, you’re kidding. Dare I believe that there is a thread on this somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/106 "2011-05-12T23:01:42Z")
Several. SEVERAL threads. And if she sees a woman shaking hands without reservation, deep down she thinks that woman is a whore. ETA - well, probably not deep down. Probably right all up in the conscious mind. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/107 "2011-05-12T23:05:45Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Dare I believe that there is a thread on this somewhere? [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12947871#post12947871) is the origin. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/108 "2011-05-13T00:19:55Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12947871#post12947871) is the origin. Beware, yon unwary traveler. Clicke the linke if ye must, but know that there there be draggons, and what one hast seen, forever will it lurk in ye braine, for unseen it cannot be. _Evil cackle, and disappears into the mist_ ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/109 "2011-05-13T01:06:57Z")
I was in a receiving line recently at a wedding and kept cracking up at the gang-hand-rape. It’s invaded my real life in a very funny way. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/110 "2011-05-13T01:10:07Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I was in a receiving line recently at a wedding and kept cracking up at the gang-hand-rape. It’s invaded my real life in a very funny way. So, you think rape is funny, do you?? :dubious: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/111 "2011-05-13T01:48:06Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Exactly how to you think adoption works in the United States. Adopted children have to fight for their original birth certificates. Their birth certicates are reissued after adoption with their adopters not their parents’ names. If adopters really cared about children they would try to make it easier for their actual parents to care for them and let them be raised with their family not strangers. It’s not about what is best for the children. It’s about making life easier for narcissism deluded infertile people. It’s my understanding that, in the U.S., the reason children are adopted is because _their parents have no interest in caring for them and want them to be raised by strangers_. And also that parents are intensely screened so they weed out people who would want kids for weird narcissistic deluded reasons (whatever the fuck that would mean). But yeah, maybe I’m ill-informed about the adopted children that were kidnapped from their birth parents and sold as playthings for the idle rich. Or maybe I’m just not a fucking nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/112 "2011-05-13T01:57:12Z")
Seeing as my father and my best friend are adopted I’m going to place myself firmly in the adoption isn’t inherently bad camp. I mean sure, they’ve both killed some women (and a couple of times they even shook their hands first) but God, they’re fun to hang out with. Oooo we’re in the pit? ZPG Zealot, you have numerous views that make you utterly repugnant. However, I think the most disgusting thing about you is that you actively worked as a fortune teller. [Ask the fortune-teller - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528597) Show me a link that implies adoption causes people to believe in that horseshit, or considerably worse, think it’s ok to peddle it, and maybe I’ll change my mind about it. Does anywhere here seriously believe that a fortune teller can hold the moral high ground over a serial killer? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/113 "2011-05-13T02:23:48Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12947871#post12947871) is the origin. Gold. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/114 "2011-05-13T02:24:49Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Does anywhere here seriously believe that a fortune teller can hold the moral high ground over a serial killer? Well, I… hate to be the one taking the risky moral stance, but… yes. Yes, I do. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/115 "2011-05-13T03:00:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > They are disproportionately gay or bisexual, too, but I doubt **Annie X-mas** is going to push that idea nearly as hard. Is that true? > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Exactly how to you think adoption works in the United States. Adopted children have to fight for their original birth certificates. Their birth certicates are reissued after adoption with their adopters not their parents’ names. Dear god, don’t let the Birthers see this thread. > [@Zsofia](#): > > I was in a receiving line recently at a wedding and kept cracking up at the gang-hand-rape. It’s invaded my real life in a very funny way. _Please repost this if you or someone you know has been the victim of a handrape…_ ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/116 "2011-05-13T03:45:44Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Does anywhere here seriously believe that a fortune teller can hold the moral high ground over a serial killer? But if they tell you they are going to kill you and it comes true then the two evils cancel out. Or have I been doing it wrong? Don’t fortune tellers read palms? That’s like raping you and telling you what each stroke means isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/117 "2011-05-13T10:36:01Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Oooo we’re in the pit? ZPG Zealot, you have numerous views that make you utterly repugnant. However, I think the most disgusting thing about you is that you actively worked as a fortune teller. [Ask the fortune-teller - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528597) > Does anywhere here seriously believe that a fortune teller can hold the moral high ground over a serial killer? See, it all depends on the style of fortune telling. There is nothing wrong with a psychological cold reading of someone and giving them mild advice [I see a tall dark man in your future, if you will change your hair to red… you know, the usual carnival stuff where you can do a mild change in appearance or action to help them primp a bit better, or get someone to control their anger around family… sort of psychology lite] as opposed to running scams on them [Your belongings are cursed, I can take the curse off them , put $500 in this envelope and we will bury it by the light of the moon …] I had a non gypsy friend who worked for PRN back in the mid 90s, she could do a cold reading card layout that was amazing. She didn’t believe in it, she was doing it for a job. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/118 "2011-05-13T12:59:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is that true? Yes. However - [ul][li]Most homosexuals are not serial killers[/li][li]Most serial killers are not homosexual[/li][li]Correlation is not necessarily causality.[/li][li]The sample size of serial killers is very small, and thus it is difficult to derive valid conclusions from any characteristic.[/ul][/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/119 "2011-05-13T13:22:49Z")
There is so much crazy in this thread, I don’t even know where to start. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/120 "2011-05-13T13:30:30Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, my sociopath half-brother is adopted as an infant. Of course, if his total lack of human empathy is genetic, that explains it a lot better than the adoption does. In other words, I think it’s more likely that he was given up because his biological family had some of the same issues rather than that he was adopted by my dad and his first wife. And I know tons of well-adjusted adopted people. (And just one evil one.) > > I definitely can’t generalize beyond my experience with one monster and say that adoption breeds serial killers. There is a statistically significant correlation between the mental health of the adoptee and the mental health of the birthparents. As well as the criminal status of the adoptee as an adult and the criminal status of the birthparent. Some of this has been alluded to - adoption statistics and foster care statistics are often confounded, population lines are not always clear. There is a obvious non-statistical difference in a child adopted at birth by strangers, one legally adopted and raised by grandma, one adopted as a toddler after institutional care, and one adopted as a teen out of foster care - and obviously a difference when the child “matches” the racial characteristics of its adoptive family and community, and when a child of color is raised by white people in white suburbs. Some of it is genetics - it is theorized that people who have mental health issues make poorer choices - and end up pregnant. (All this from "Launching A Baby’s Adoption, by Patricia Irwin Johnson). In Sweden, a study on multiracial adoption showed MUCH higher rates of suicide among multiracial adoptees. It was theorized that this had more to do with the multiracial nature (Sweden is a pretty white place) than with the adoption, as there is a statistical difference when looking at white adoptees in Sweden, or multiracial adoptees in multiracial communities. (Sorry, no cite on that one - the study would have been run around 1998 - it was published about the time we adopted our son). I wouldn’t say (adoptive parent, daughter of an adoptee) that adoption is never a factor in mental illness or sociopathic behavior, but there are a lot of other variables at play in adoption, some that have held up to study when you dig deeper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=7)