# Seriously, Annie-Xmas, shut up about adoption and serial killers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652 "2011-05-12T14:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/161 "2011-05-14T12:11:35Z")
Now I know the real reason parents didn’t like D&D. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/162 "2011-05-14T13:59:02Z")
NAME: **Adopted Child** FREQUENCY: all too common NO. APPEARING: 1-4 ARMOR CLASS: 10 (deceptively easy target) MOVE: silently, when you least expect it HIT DICE: 1-4 HP (again, seems harmless) % IN LAIR: 99% standing over you in _your_ lair, while you sleep TREASURE TYPE: F, Q (ill gotten gains from murdered victims) NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 (your death) DAMAGE/ATTACK: all your HP are belong to us SPECIAL ATTACKS: innocent appearance, murderous rage SPECIAL DEFENSES: support network of narcissistic infertile yuppies MAGIC RESISTANCE: lots INTELLIGENCE: cunning ALIGNMENT: chaotic motherfucking handshaking evil SIZE: small… oh so small and innocent PSIONIC ABILITY: 666 Attack/Defense Modes: fortune telling ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/163 "2011-05-14T14:33:52Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > NAME: **Adopted Child** > FREQUENCY: all too common > NO. APPEARING: 1-4 > ARMOR CLASS: 10 (deceptively easy target) > MOVE: silently, when you least expect it > HIT DICE: 1-4 HP (again, seems harmless) > % IN LAIR: 99% standing over you in _your_ lair, while you sleep > TREASURE TYPE: F, Q (ill gotten gains from murdered victims) > NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 (your death) > DAMAGE/ATTACK: all your HP are belong to us > SPECIAL ATTACKS: innocent appearance, murderous rage > SPECIAL DEFENSES: support network of narcissistic infertile yuppies > MAGIC RESISTANCE: lots > INTELLIGENCE: cunning > ALIGNMENT: chaotic motherfucking handshaking evil > SIZE: small… oh so small and innocent > PSIONIC ABILITY: 666 > Attack/Defense Modes: fortune telling My first laugh of the day. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/164 "2011-05-14T16:59:48Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > NAME: **Adopted Child** > FREQUENCY: all too common > NO. APPEARING: 1-4 > ARMOR CLASS: 10 (deceptively easy target) > MOVE: silently, when you least expect it > HIT DICE: 1-4 HP (again, seems harmless) > % IN LAIR: 99% standing over you in _your_ lair, while you sleep > TREASURE TYPE: F, Q (ill gotten gains from murdered victims) > NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 (your death) > DAMAGE/ATTACK: all your HP are belong to us > SPECIAL ATTACKS: innocent appearance, murderous rage > SPECIAL DEFENSES: support network of narcissistic infertile yuppies > MAGIC RESISTANCE: lots > INTELLIGENCE: cunning > ALIGNMENT: chaotic motherfucking handshaking evil > SIZE: small… oh so small and innocent > PSIONIC ABILITY: 666 > Attack/Defense Modes: fortune telling I just snorted a half-chewed piece of red licorice out my nose. I may sue. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/165 "2011-05-14T17:22:20Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > NAME: **Adopted Child** > FREQUENCY: all too common > NO. APPEARING: 1-4 > ARMOR CLASS: 10 (deceptively easy target) > MOVE: silently, when you least expect it > HIT DICE: 1-4 HP (again, seems harmless) > % IN LAIR: 99% standing over you in _your_ lair, while you sleep > TREASURE TYPE: F, Q (ill gotten gains from murdered victims) > NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 (your death) > DAMAGE/ATTACK: all your HP are belong to us > SPECIAL ATTACKS: innocent appearance, murderous rage > SPECIAL DEFENSES: support network of narcissistic infertile yuppies > MAGIC RESISTANCE: lots > INTELLIGENCE: cunning > ALIGNMENT: chaotic motherfucking handshaking evil > SIZE: small… oh so small and innocent > PSIONIC ABILITY: 666 > Attack/Defense Modes: fortune telling I’ve never played D&D but this made me laugh pretty hard. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/166 "2011-05-14T17:51:28Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I am a feminist considerably more so then the woman who sell out other woman for male approval by insisting that men cannot be expected to understand basic etiquette. Apparently, the greatest crime to these women is anything that inconveniences a man. > > You don’t like fortune-telling. So what? I don’t like the fact that churches don’t pay taxes on their tithes and offerings and they rake in a million times more money than all the fortune-tellers on earth. No one compels my clients to see me. I give them good advice which most of them quite frankly need. Whether that advice comes completely from my mind or something else who knows? If higher powers exist would they bother telling us? We have no way of determining this, which is exactly what I tell my clients. So your defense to doing something wrong is to claim that other people do wrong things to? So can I offer you a handshake because other people offer women handshakes? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/167 "2011-05-14T18:45:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I was the person in the family most difficult (for the social worker who wanted to put him up for adoption) to prove unfit as a guardian. I think we’re closing in on something here. If I understand correctly, this nutbag, measured amongst the family that raised her, was the most difficult to prove an unfit guardian. Not that any of them were actually fit, just that this one was the most difficult to prove anything against, mind you. And, if this is the best and brightest of the clan, well what does it say about the rest?:eek: Then, let’s stop and consider just how unfit would those others, have to be, for Roma culture/Eastern European officialdom, to be able to easily make a case against their fitness. Seriously, what could possibly have made them think the entire rest of the family was ‘unfit’? I shiver to think what it could possibly be. And I, for one, don’t want to know, because I suspect it passes into the realm of stones better left unturned. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/168 "2011-05-14T19:24:52Z")
I’m assuming that **Qadgop** has shaken hands with colleagues and even his patients at work. Does that mean he’s been prison-raped? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/169 "2011-05-14T20:29:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Take some cough medicine. From your link: > > And I notice you cut off your quote right where it said (emphasis added): > > So, no, one loon with a bill that isn’t going anywhere and does not require all miscarriages to be investigated is not a refutation. I would say “nice try”, but it wasn’t. Expect it is NOT just one loon. _Someone_ keeps voting for this guy, enough someones to keep him in office. This shows that it is not a “red herring” as you would have liked to pretend. These people DO exist. They are trying to make it happen, they just don’t have the polical clout to succeed, yet. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/170 "2011-05-15T00:29:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Taking children away from their families and giving them to someone who is richer and more powerful is wrong. If thier biological family are damaging them then it is not wrong. If thier biological gives them away because they do not want or cannot care for them then it is not wrong. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Conning women into risking their lives to give birth to children they don’t want so predatory adoption lawyers can create “abandoned” babies is despicable. If that were happening then you would be correct but I posit that the incidences of this in civilized countries is so low as to be negligible and that you know this if you were raised in one. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Personally, I think waisting all the time and effort you have described above into the raising of a child is a recipe for creating a spoiled little sociopath. Discipline, not coddling molds children into worthwhile adults. THIS is what makes me think you were raised in a Skinner box. Discipline? It takes a lot of it to mold a child without a harsh hand. Children learn by example mostly and that may take years. But a waste of time? No. It is the highest honor and greatest pleasure. A sociopath? YOU consider yourself the arbiter of what makes someone a sociopath? How many children have YOU raised? The greatest tradition and bond which creates a good and noble person is love and caring not cold discipline. Warmth teaches a child to discipline themselves. A child first cares about doing right when they know that to do wrong will hurt the parent and make them less in thier eyes. I want to leave you with what my grown, successful, absolutly wonderful daughter wrote to me last fathers day. I have it framed above my computer next to the painting she did of me and my father that I treasure. \*Daddy, I love you so much I wanted to let you know how much you mean to me. Some of my favorite memories growing up were times spent with you. I remember days when you were so tired from work but you would drag yourself outside to help me catch better for little league. I remember our fishing trips and the momemts spent getting our boat ready for the lake. I remember long talks when I would go with you to work and the life lessons you taught me through your comical, sometimes sad youth. I remember how special you made every Christmas, and how precious you made me feel everyday. You taught me to love unconditionally, be patient with others, not to be prideful, to look at the world as a beautiful place full of wonder and magic. There was never a day I didn’t know my daddy loved me or that you didn’t make me feel like a princess. I treasure our Saturday morning cartoon sittings, our nature walks, our arts and crafts on the kitchen table, and all the times you would braid my hair before school. You helped make me the confident woman I am today and I’m so proud to call you my father. You have given me eyes to see the wonder this world has to offer, a heart to feel compassion for everyones circumstances, hands to create beautiful things, and a brain to sit and ponder lifes mysteries. You are the only one I can share my craziest thoughts with and you get me. You’re a wonderful dad and I thank you for giving me a life full of wonder.\* You do have my sympathy for the way you were brought up but it can’t change what I know to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/171 "2011-05-15T16:13:26Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I am a feminist… You’re a feminist the way a ham-and-cheese sandwich is kosher, you evil shitstain lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/172 "2011-05-15T17:07:28Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > You’re a feminist the way a ham-and-cheese sandwich is kosher, you evil shitstain lunatic. This is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/173 "2011-05-15T17:32:32Z")
You think the protestors will shut up about abortion causing breast cancer? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/174 "2011-05-15T17:34:05Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > You think the protestors will shut up about abortion causing breast cancer? So their lies justify your lies? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/175 "2011-05-15T17:42:56Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > You think the protestors will shut up about abortion causing breast cancer? Why don’t you find someone around here who says that, and pit them for it? Maybe they’ll stop. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/176 "2011-05-15T19:05:16Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > You were the one having a fit. You could just say ‘no thank you, my religion doesn’t permit shaking hands’, and 99.9% of the men in the world would drop smile, probably apologize, and move on to the next person. I seriously can’t imagine any of these guys kept shoving their hand into your face after you politely refused to shake. > > It’s a waste\* of time to spend time with your kids? Christ, my parents disciplined me plenty, but they still enjoyed my company. > > - sorry, a ‘waist’ of time. Dude, you shouldn’t have touched her waist without permission. That’s worse than handshaking. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/177 "2011-05-16T00:05:20Z")
Disclaimer: I am not adopted. I don’t think I even know anyone who is adopted. I have no particular feelings or opinions about adoption one way or another. I opened this thread because the title was interesting and I’ve always thought of Annie as a completely uncontroversial poster. I read the first third of the thread and decided to go-a-googling to see where this all started and what information might be available. It appears to me, from my search that the source for the information is a book called “[Adoption: Uncharted Waters](http://www.amazon.com/Adoption-Uncharted-Psychologists-Practical-Therapists/dp/0970288328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305502532&sr=8-1)” by David Kirschner, PH.D, the man who came up wiht the concept of “Adopted Child Syndrome”. According to his book, FBI statistics state that 16% of serial killers are adopted, vs. 2-3% of the population. In my search I saw other breakdowns of the facts, but all of them arrived at the conclusion that adoptees are overrepresented to a statistically significant degree among serial murderers. The book has been positively reviewed by people who it appears are not in any way hostile to adoption: > [@](#): > > “Very powerful. It is good to have a clear syndrome named and legitimized. The case histories were lucidly written and whilst the sample is small and a clear minority of adoptees, the analysis of why some adoptions go so badly wrong is terrific. Once again, many thanks David” --Anthony Douglas, Chief Executive of CAFCASS, England and Chair of BAAF, UK **(British Association for Adoption & Fostering)** writes of Adoption: Uncharted Waters, 12/30/2006 > > “A must read. I found the book interesting, intriguing and well-supported by well-known members of the adoption community.” --\*\*Adoption Today Magazine, August/September, 2006. > \*\* > “Kirschner brings attention to the concept of Adopted Child Syndrome, which is bred through lies and fantasies about birth parents.” --\*\*Fostering Families Today Magazine, July/August, 2006. \*\* > > ``` > **Product Description** > > Examines adoption issues of abandonment, loss, rejection, attachment, bonding, birth-parent fantasies & split-identity; as reflected in the Adopted Child Syndrome (ACS) and evidenced in extreme cases of adoptees who commit acts of homicide. Clinical and forensic issues in adoption are explored in high-profile cases. > > ``` All of this leads me to say that it appears the quarrel should be less with Annie than with Dr. Kirschner. From his [website](http://www.adoptionunchartedwaters.com/aboutthebook.php) description of the book: > [@](#): > > **ADOPTION: UNCHARTED WATERS** > Nothing ever before written about adoption can prepare the reader for the revelations in this book. With the precision of a forensic psychologist in a coutroom drama, David Kirschner sheds light on a dark subject - adoptees who kill: David Berkowitz (Son of Sam), Joel Rifkin (serial killer of 17 women), Steve Catlin (serial wife and mother killer), Jeremy Strohmeyer (the “casino” killer) and parricides Patrick DeGelleke, Matthew Heikkila and Patrick Niiranen. > All were adopted, all obsessed with fantasies of their birth mothers, all raised with secrets and lies, all blocked and frustrated in their searches by a closed adoption system - before they killed. Exploring issues of abandonment, rejection, bonding, and birth-parent fantasies, Kirschner, known for his concept of the _Adopted Child Syndrome (ACS),_ presents compelling evidence for the healing power of honesty and openness. In this fascinating, personal narrative, he explains why these tragedies need not have occurred. With twenty-five million Americans directly touched by adoption, and the hot button issue of sealed records before the courts of many states, adoption gone wrong is an issue that effects all of us. > > **ADOPTION: UNCHARTED WATERS,** an important contribution to adoption literature, shows what we _must_ learn from adoptions gone wrong, and how _not_ to raise an adopted child. This book is essential reading for adoptees and their adoptive and birth families, mental health professionals, criminal justice personnel, and any other reader who wants or needs to know about this part of the human experience. > > **ADOPTION: UNCHARTED WATERS** is not a condemnation of adoption. Leaving behind the political, financial and intensely personal agendas that have muddied so much human and clinical truth about adoption, Dr. Kirschner keeps his focus on the best interests of the adopted child. With insights gained from these sobering case histories, he explains what can be done to minimize risk and prevent problems, and offers numerous suggestions for raising healthy and happy adopted children - children with a positive sense of self and identity, children with a conscience, children who can trust and love. > > “In these extreme cases, the split, false, secret self described by many adoption experts had evolved into a more malignant, clinical dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personality disorder). This book is about the lives of these people. While it is about evil acts; it is also about loss, abandonment, rejection, pain, and the search for one’s self and identity. It is ultimately a book about love, and how the most basic human need for bonding can sometimes evolve into a fatal quest. Although only a subset of adoptees are at risk for clinical problems, and just a small percent of these are prone to violence, we can learn much from the few who kill.” - David Kirschner, _Adoption: Uncharted Waters_ I recommend that anyone wondering go to the Amazon link and look inside the book to the acknowledgments and introduction, where the author talks about how he became interested in the subject, as well as the rest of available pages. It’s hard to come away with the idea that this is the pathetic work of a raving madman without a clue. It seems he may have a point, and that his work is designed to help people avoid pitfalls that can lead to profoundly damaging results as a consequence of adoption specifically. So, in conclusion, it appears that Annie is not crazy, irrational or stupid, although she might be slightly repetitive and unusually interested in the topic. Rather, she is accepting, vs. rejecting, the conclusions a psychologist/psychoanalyst who has made a study of the issue has come to. You may reject them. But your rejection of Kirschner’s theory is not for some reason clearly correct while Annie’s acceptance is clearly incorrect; it seems that there is room for debate and analysis of the theory. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/178 "2011-05-16T00:21:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Taking children away from their families and giving them to someone who is richer and more powerful is wrong. Conning women into risking their lives to give birth to children they don’t want so predatory adoption lawyers can create “abandoned” babies is despicable. Personally, I think waisting all the time and effort you have described above into the raising of a child is a recipe for creating a spoiled little sociopath. Discipline, not coddling molds children into worthwhile adults. You mean sociopaths who advocate infanticide as a solution if abortion were outlawed? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/179 "2011-05-16T00:23:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Disclaimer: I am not adopted. I don’t think I even know anyone who is adopted. I have no particular feelings or opinions about adoption one way or another. > > I opened this thread because the title was interesting and I’ve always thought of Annie as a completely uncontroversial poster. > > I read the first third of the thread and decided to go-a-googling to see where this all started and what information might be available. > > It appears to me, from my search that the source for the information is a book called “[Adoption: Uncharted Waters](http://www.amazon.com/Adoption-Uncharted-Psychologists-Practical-Therapists/dp/0970288328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305502532&sr=8-1)” by David Kirschner, PH.D, the man who came up wiht the concept of “Adopted Child Syndrome”. > > According to his book, FBI statistics state that 16% of serial killers are adopted, vs. 2-3% of the population. In my search I saw other breakdowns of the facts, but all of them arrived at the conclusion that adoptees are overrepresented to a statistically significant degree among serial murderers. > > The book has been positively reviewed by people who it appears are not in any way hostile to adoption: > All of this leads me to say that it appears the quarrel should be less with Annie than with Dr. Kirschner. From his [website](http://www.adoptionunchartedwaters.com/aboutthebook.php) description of the book: > > I recommend that anyone wondering go to the Amazon link and look inside the book to the acknowledgments and introduction, where the author talks about how he became interested in the subject, as well as the rest of available pages. It’s hard to come away with the idea that this is the pathetic work of a raving madman without a clue. It seems he may have a point, and that his work is designed to help people avoid pitfalls that can lead to profoundly damaging results as a consequence of adoption specifically. > > So, in conclusion, it appears that Annie is not crazy, irrational or stupid, although she might be slightly repetitive and unusually interested in the topic. Rather, she is accepting, vs. rejecting, the conclusions a psychologist/psychoanalyst who has made a study of the issue has come to. You may reject them. But your rejection of Kirschner’s theory is not for some reason clearly correct while Annie’s acceptance is clearly incorrect; it seems that there is room for debate and analysis of the theory. Did you bother reading the rest of the thread to see why throwing these “facts” around is wrong and harmful? All you’re saying is that it’s okay to repeat idiotic claims as long as they came out of a book. **There is plenty of information in this thread that explains why those figures are absolutely meaningless.** Even Annie came to realize that those figures were crap. Now here you are promoting his work? ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652/180 "2011-05-16T00:44:35Z")
DUH DUH DUH, HERE COMES STOID TO SAVE THE DAAAAAAY, PROMOTER OF THE MISUNDERSTOOD SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN, DEFENDER OF THE DOWNTRODDEN TRUTH-SEER, FIGHTER OF MAINSTREAM IDEOLOGIES AND ARROGANT LAWYER JERKS! I feel safer already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-annie-xmas-shut-up-about-adoption-and-serial-killers/581652.md?page=10)