# Seriously guys, do we really still need a FIVE MINUTE delay on search? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516 "2009-07-19T07:26:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/121 "2009-08-05T16:56:22Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > So you’re saying that Ed and Jerry do this as a part time “just for fun” thing? I’ve never heard that before. The heck you haven’t, unless you just don’t read around here. The Reader certainly had a reason for letting us set up a Board after AOL kicked us off; it acts as a good way to entice people from the Net in general to become interested in Cecil’s column. Not only is there the front end site to capture attention, but the Board allows those interested in Cecil’s columns an outlet to discuss them, which is a draw. But if you will recall, we went for about 4 years with the Board being something that was provided gratis to us. Then came the dreaded pay-to-post, which was imposed because The Reader no longer was willing to indulge our interest in Cecil at their expense. We had become sooo popular that it became necessary to upgrade hardware, call on the services of Jerry more, etc. So The Reader said to us, come up with a way to pay your way in the world. So we did (well, the Board did; I refused to participate in it for 18 months or so, until my fingers were trembling so bad from withdrawl that one day they paid my membership during the middle of the night and presented me with _fait accompli_). We instituted pay-to-post. Now, I agree with **crazyjoe** that pay-to-post established a consumer relationship with us. But unlike the underlying assumption of **crazyjoe** that this somehow means that the Board at that point needed to do something, I think all that the relationship means is what it should mean in the business world. If you, the consumer, don’t get your money’s worth, don’t continue to do business with the purveyor of services/goods involved. That’s a pretty simple concept, but it never seems to percolate into the frontal lobes of our unhappy posters. And, of course, we have since stopped being a pay-to-post place, so even the assumption that there is a relationship that means The Reader (now Creative Loafing) owes us some sort of massive attention to our little side hobby no longer holds. We’ve returned to what we were, a place for fans of Cecil to hang out and discuss things. I’ve never expected much from the Board, because I understand this basic underlying situation. I would love it if we could institute a new search without waiting 300 seconds. In my mind, it seriously hamstrings the function. But I also know of one message board I inhabit, run by a software company no less, using the same vBulletin software, that no longer allows searches at all. The reason? To avoid hanging the board up. So if Jerry says that five minutes is needed, to avoid degredation of Board functions like reading and posting, I’ll live with it, as it could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/122 "2009-08-05T17:00:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > This ISN’T his job, Lord Ashtar. With due respect, I have explained that repeatedly. He works for Creative Loafing, not the SDMB. He helps out here, from time to time, because the SDMB is owned by Creative Loafing. Think of it as a guy who works at the headquarters of a multi-branch operation. Once in a while, a division manager might call on him for help, but his primary duty is at the home office. That’s kind of how it is here. Jerry is an admin only in a sort of honorary sense. It’s really not a proper title for him, and that’s something Tuba or someone on that level could (and due to this kind of controversy, probably _should_) fix. So, in light of the post below this one, are you guessing all this? Or do you **know** this somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/123 "2009-08-05T17:59:49Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > So, in light of the post below this one, are you guessing all this? Or do you **know** this somehow? I deduced parts of it from what I believe are reasonable premises. But I believe I recall TubaDiva or Ed at some point saying the thing about Jerry is not an admin in the same sense Tuba or Gaudere are. And I believe I recall Ed, in a rather furious defense of Jerry, saying that he is employed by Creative Loafing (or Chicago Reader at the time), and does this kind of work when he can get to it. There is no permanent sys-admin for the board, as I understand it. The closest thing we have to that is Tuba (or maybe Gaudere, who also has a full time job — freelance web design, I believe.) ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/124 "2009-08-05T18:08:10Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I haven’t used MySQL (experience is with DB2, Oracle and MS SQL), but a little googlin’ shows MySQL has supported FULLTEXT indexing and searching of TEXT types (all of 'em) since around 2003. A screenshot from the VB control panel: [http://i25.tinypic.com/2jbnyo.png](http://i25.tinypic.com/2jbnyo.png) ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/125 "2009-08-05T18:47:30Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What’s the problem with you that you can’t just respecfully disagree with someone, and instead have to make a federal case out of it, and all but call them idiots and retards? Sorry. I don’t recall calling you an idiot or retard, and I don’t think anything I said I was comparable, but I still think your technical responses in this thread were misguided and counterproductive noise amidst real discussion of the issue. Trying to impress us with your VP experience, some irrelevant snippets of code, and some silly pronouncements about how all databases work just annoyed me into wanting to add to the chorus of people pointing out that you’re claiming expertise where you apparently have none, or where yours is outdated enough that you effectively have none. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/126 "2009-08-05T19:39:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > This ISN’T his job, Lord Ashtar. With due respect, I have explained that repeatedly. He works for Creative Loafing, not the SDMB. I never said he worked for the SDMB. I’m saying that as an asset to CL, for whom Jerry does work, the SDMB would fall under his responsibilities and therefore be his job to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/127 "2009-08-05T19:47:00Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > Sorry. I don’t recall calling you an idiot or retard, and I don’t think anything I said I was comparable, but I still think your technical responses in this thread were misguided and counterproductive noise amidst real discussion of the issue. Trying to impress us with your VP experience, some irrelevant snippets of code, and some silly pronouncements about how all databases work just annoyed me into wanting to add to the chorus of people pointing out that you’re claiming expertise where you apparently have none, or where yours is outdated enough that you effectively have none. What chorus of people? DSYoung is saying the same thing I’m saying about Jerry. RaftPeople is the only other person, besides you, who is questioning me about the technical discussion. (And doing it respectfully.) Lord Ashtar is just basically asking questions and pointing out that MySQL isn’t as primitive as GNU grep. It’s only you. It’s not a chorus; it’s a one man band. And you’re saying things like I’m trying to “impress people”. That’s hogwash, and just something you made up. I used some code to demonstrate a point is all. If I wanted to impress people, I’d post a Dot Net C# app that fools a website into thinking it has dropped a cookie. You’ve spent almost the whole past page dogging me about things you made up that I said or intended. You’ve called me “confused”; you’ve said that I “mislead people”; you said I’m “spouting bullshit”; you said I made claims that I never made. You have been hostile, irascible, and rude, attacking me personally at nearly every opportunity. You’ve attacked everything from my credentials to my moral character. It is not my fault that you believe you have some personal stake in protecting the world from what you perceive as “counterproductive noise” when all the while, you’ve done nothing but scream and rant. There is absolutely no reason on earth that you couldn’t simply have said, “Respectfully, I disagree. It is my opinion that off-loading MySQL to a slave would improve performance.” All this hyperbole about me trying to impress people and all that was completely unnecessary. People do things different ways, and there is often more than one solution to a problem. Sometimes, there is no solution at all. But I don’t see why we can’t be respectful of one another. I don’t see how poisoning the well with personal (and baseless — you don’t even know me) attacks facilitates the discussion. In fact, it only derails it. But if you want to keep dishing it out, I can take it. You seem to be trying to impress people with how much you can insult someone. All I can say is, knock yourself out. It doesn’t bother me a bit. I’ll just keep on expressing my opinion, and you can keep on slinging mud if you like. That’s all up to you, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/128 "2009-08-05T19:50:22Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I never said he worked for the SDMB. I’m saying that as an asset to CL, for whom Jerry does work, the SDMB would fall under his responsibilities and therefore be his job to fix. But at a very low priority. That’s the point. Very very low — as when there’s nothing else that needs doing. The business is about making a profit. Jerry’s bosses, I assure you, will use him exhaustively for that purpose before putting him on something like this. That’s not inside knowledge. That’s just how businesses work. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/129 "2009-08-05T19:52:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I deduced parts of it from what I believe are reasonable premises. But I believe I recall TubaDiva or Ed at some point saying the thing about Jerry is not an admin in the same sense Tuba or Gaudere are. And I believe I recall Ed, in a rather furious defense of Jerry, saying that he is employed by Creative Loafing (or Chicago Reader at the time), and does this kind of work when he can get to it. There is no permanent sys-admin for the board, as I understand it. The closest thing we have to that is Tuba (or maybe Gaudere, who also has a full time job — freelance web design, I believe.) I wonder how many people would’ve paid for a service if it was made clear that no one was responsible for its upkeep or well-being. I certainly would’ve thought twice. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/130 "2009-08-05T20:04:28Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What chorus of people? “So, Mr Senior VP, I suggest you kindly stop dispensing knowledge that you simply don’t have, and let those of us who do have the knowledge try to discuss the problem.” – **CrazyJoe** “But when you’re going to try and throw out the Star Trek talk\*, don’t be surprised if someone knows that you’re just trying to obfuscate things. … \* I use this term to describe when someone tries to throw out a bunch of technobabble in the hopes that nobody will notice that they didn’t really say anything.” – **Lord Ashtar** “Your eagerness to explain to me exactly what the problem was in excruciating detail sounds an awful lot to me like someone who knows a little bit about a little bit but thinks he knows more than he does.” – **Lord Ashtar** Plus **RaftPeople** and me. > [@](#): > > If I wanted to impress people, I’d post a Dot Net C# app that fools a website into thinking it has dropped a cookie. Oh, that **is** impressive. You said what language it’ll be in and everything. Let’s talk about your VPness some more. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/131 "2009-08-05T20:31:59Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But at a very low priority. That’s the point. Very very low — as when there’s nothing else that needs doing. If it’s such a low priority, then why not accept free help as it’s offered? It doesn’t have to create a tax accounting nightmare unless you make a big deal out of it, and people have been offering repeatedly over the years to do it pro bono. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/132 "2009-08-05T20:34:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > We’re two ships passing in the night. MySQL supports full-text indexing, but that’s no big deal. Every DB worth a damn supports full-text indexing, but that doesn’t mean indexing of thousand character strings, which is what a post is. I understand the distinction you are making between a tokenized index/search and a complete index of all substrings from within a post. But the discussion related to searching posts and whether MySQL supports indexes over text fields. It supports 1 strategy of many. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/133 "2009-08-05T20:42:39Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I wonder how many people would’ve paid for a service if it was made clear that no one was responsible for its upkeep or well-being. I certainly would’ve thought twice. That was exactly what I was thinking at the time, way back when. I knew that TubaDiva was in charge, but that Gaudere had the technical skills. It was when the SDMB went down for a goodly long time that Tuba, to her credit, paid out of her own pocket for us to be hosted elsewhere temporarily. Gaudere volunteered her services, and that was when she was promoted from mod to admin. But she’s very busy with her own work, though she pops in from time to time. I’ve always thought very highly and fondly of her. Well, anyway. This is where we are, and it’s not ideal. We have what we have. At least for now. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/134 "2009-08-05T20:42:56Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > If it’s such a low priority, then why not accept free help as it’s offered? It doesn’t have to create a tax accounting nightmare unless you make a big deal out of it, and people have been offering repeatedly over the years to do it pro bono. It’s complicated. Things work differently in the corporate world. Not having a head to cut when things go wrong only means that the buck is passed on higher until you get to the guy who accepted the help. He doesn’t want his head to roll and would have no control over what could happen. Plus, who do you trust? I mean, who do you REALLY trust? Accidentally or maliciously, the whole thing could go to dust in a second. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/135 "2009-08-05T20:45:21Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I wonder how many people would’ve paid for a service if it was made clear that no one was responsible for its upkeep or well-being. I certainly would’ve thought twice. The usual argument runs that you are not really paying for the service. The service is “as is” and you have no guarantees that you will get any. Think of your money as some obscure convenience fee and you get free service as a bonus on the transaction. Or at least that’s what the fine print normally boils down to. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/136 "2009-08-05T20:45:41Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > It’s complicated. Things work differently in the corporate world. Not having a head to cut when things go wrong only means that the buck is passed on higher until you get to the guy who accepted the help. He doesn’t want his head to roll and would have no control over what could happen. Plus, who do you trust? I mean, who do you REALLY trust? Accidentally or maliciously, the whole thing could go to dust in a second. If it’s such a small operation, it’s not really that complicated. This is not trying to get a new telecommunications satellite from the CFO of a multinational corporation, it’s asking a guy in a small office if someone can look at the config screen of a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/137 "2009-08-05T20:52:29Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > If it’s such a small operation, it’s not really that complicated. This is not trying to get a new telecommunications satellite from the CFO of a multinational corporation, it’s asking a guy in a small office if someone can look at the config screen of a message board. The SDMB is a small operation, but they are not their own dog. They are owned by a large corporation who is in turn owned by a larger corporation. The buck can go a long way up before it stops. And the guy in the small office that needs to look at the config screen is not in the next office. He is elsewhere looking at dozens other config screens of people who are seen as more profitable/critical/important than the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/138 "2009-08-05T20:53:05Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I understand the distinction you are making between a tokenized index/search and a complete index of all substrings from within a post. But the discussion related to searching posts and whether MySQL supports indexes over text fields. It supports 1 strategy of many. Well, I think we were all making points. That’s what a discussion is, really. There is no “the discussion”. We’re allowed to discuss what we want to, so long as it relates to the OP. And with respect to MySQL supporting indexes of text fields, I have no quibble with that. I used “Username” as an example of an indexed text field myself. But, if we honestly want to get all technical and everything, the full-text search process doesn’t even really build an index; it builds a concordance. But I’m not interested in berating and insulting people who call it an index. But there is one thing for which you are to be commended even above and beyond the important contributions you’ve made — and there have been many. It’s the fact that you are respectful and courteous in your discussions. No unnecessary hyperbole or insults. You make your points. You state your opinions. You question other people about theirs. You’re doing exactly what discussion is all about. Just because Poster X wants to discuss Aspect A doesn’t mean that no one can raise a point about Aspect B. That’s how I see it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/139 "2009-08-05T20:56:34Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > Oh, that **is** impressive. You said what language it’ll be in and everything. Let’s talk about your VPness some more. Let’s just not talk, you and me. If you have more potshots, why don’t you man up and take them to the Pit where they belong. At least Lord Ashtar backed off and began discussing rationally. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516/140 "2009-08-05T21:54:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Well, I think we were all making points. That’s what a discussion is, really. There is no “the discussion”. We’re allowed to discuss what we want to, so long as it relates to the OP. And with respect to MySQL supporting indexes of text fields, I have no quibble with that. I used “Username” as an example of an indexed text field myself. But, if we honestly want to get all technical and everything, the full-text search process doesn’t even really build an index; it builds a concordance. But I’m not interested in berating and insulting people who call it an index. > > But there is one thing for which you are to be commended even above and beyond the important contributions you’ve made — and there have been many. It’s the fact that you are respectful and courteous in your discussions. No unnecessary hyperbole or insults. You make your points. You state your opinions. You question other people about theirs. You’re doing exactly what discussion is all about. Just because Poster X wants to discuss Aspect A doesn’t mean that no one can raise a point about Aspect B. That’s how I see it, anyway. All agreed, raft out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-guys-do-we-really-still-need-a-five-minute-delay-on-search/503516.md?page=8)