# Seriously, how can anyone believe in religions like Christianity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294 "2009-07-26T04:37:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Nation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@Nation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nation)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/241 "2009-07-31T14:24:23Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I would certainly consider something with SOME sort of scientific thought behind it before I’d consider something that has been proven over and over to be a custom-made Explanation for Everything, cherry-picked by each believer so it feels all comfy and soft to their individual experience. A common occurence for the simple minded. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/242 "2009-07-31T14:36:39Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > Like I said earlier, you DONT WANT to accept a God because you think there can be nothing greater than you are. Its your egotistical brain that rejects the notion of a God, because Science has proven NOTHING as to how the Universe or anything in it came into existence. Theories yes, proven? NO. An interesting point of view. I have come to believe that a belief in a personal God - the God of Abraham, or the God of Mohammad, or the God of Lightning, for that matter - is an exercise in EXTREME egotism. The notion that we, as humans, are SO intelligent and SO awesome and SO super-special that someone or something mind-bogglingly grand and amazing HAS to have created us on purpose is the biggest ego trip I can imagine. I once thought I had a mystical experience. I spent years thinking I had had a mystical experience. I mean, it was almost mind-blowing. Then I actually thought hard about what had happened to me, and I realized that it was nothing but my giant ego wanting to be recognized personally by something big enough to control the whole universe. The experience was still neat-o, and the circumstances were still pretty swell, but I in no way still believe that it had anything to do with anything supernatural. Then again I also firmly believe that any sentence which begins, “Science\* doesn’t know…” should end with the word, “yet.” 300 years ago “science” didn’t know what a dinosaur was. 300 years ago “science” didn’t know what DNA was. 300 years ago “science” still included, with perfect respectability, ALCHEMY. - Science is not a thing. Science is a process by which things are examined. to speak of SCIENCE as a God, a system of beliefs, or an end to itself is disingenuous at best, screamingly ignorant at worst. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/243 "2009-07-31T14:37:17Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > A common occurence for the simple minded. Anyone who even considers magic and voodoo is the simp, in this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/244 "2009-07-31T14:43:35Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Anyone who even considers magic and voodoo is the simp, in this scenario. And I’m not confusing anything. It’s you who have confused reality with wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/245 "2009-07-31T14:52:28Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > Thats the question isnt it? Where did ANYTHING come from? You cannot explain it, I cant, no one can. But to rule out anything when nothing makes sense is narrow minded and egotistical. This is called the argument from ignorance. If I don’t know the answer to a question, it must have been magic. > [@](#): > > No, not you, you’re too smart to have been created, it just doesnt make sense to you, but neither does quantum mechanics or quantum physics… but some scientist told you it did so you go with that. Whjat you mean is that YOU don’t understand quantum physics, there it must be all made up, and the real answer to all unanswered questions is MAGIC. Science does not require you to take anybody’s word for anything. You’re thinking of religion. > [@](#): > > I’m not a Christian, a Muslim, or anything, but I’m open to all points of view and I dont discard one theory over another one because its the least logical, when none of this shit is logical. Are you open to Zeus or Wotan/ You don’t know what the word “theory” means, by the way. “It was magic” is not a theory. Neither is “God.” [quot]Speak religion to an Atheist and he/she goes insane over it. Screaming and ranting and pointing fingers and laughing because they DONT WANT to believe it.. that existence has a purpose or that there is a higher power above them.. [/QUOTE] You’re deluding yourself, and it sounds like you’re projecting your own fears. You’re the one who sounds hysterical and desperate here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/246 "2009-07-31T15:01:33Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > A common occurence for the simple minded. All theistic belief is religious belief. I don’t know why believers try this gambit. It’s not like it makes your case for magic spirits any stronger. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/247 "2009-07-31T15:21:44Z")
You know, if **Nation** wasn’t such a total douche, it would be easier to spot the grain of truth in his argument. Since he _is_ a total douche, I’ll point it out. Most atheists (most people, for that matter) don’t understand the scientific basis for much of what they presume to be true. Few, if any, of us participating in this thread have anything more than the most basic understanding of the Big Bang theory, quantum physics, and while we’re better versed in evolution- having debated it _ad nauseam_- we’re a bit iffy on that one too. Hell, most of us couldn’t even explain how any electrical device more complex than a motor works. We accept these things _on faith_- faith in people smarter than us. Now, there’s an _element_ of reason in there; I accept that the Big Bang theory is probably true because the people who tell me it is _also_ told me other things which I was able to verify for myself. It’s kind of a logical fallacy, though. I accept Stephen Hawking’s model of the universe because I accept High School Physics Professor X’s model of an aerofoil, and he says Stephen Hawking is right. Call it the fallacy of truth by association. Now, here’s the difference between explanations based on religious faith and those based on science: sources. Stephen Hawking is a secondary source, speaking in my own time, to people I’ve met. God is, at best a tertiary source, who may not actually have existed, speaking ~2,000 years ago (adjust time delay according to religion of your choice)- to people who may not actually have existed themselves. The people who try to explain God’s model of the universe to me not only don’t understand it themselves, they don’t know anyone who does. Hmmm… that took an awful lot longer to type than I thought it would. ETA: Forgot to make a point! Well, here it is: although scientific theories do a much better job of explaining the universe, they’re not infallible and more importantly, neither are the people promulgating them. It’s therefore foolish to absolutely rule out the existence some sort of higher power. Better to file it under “unverified”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/248 "2009-07-31T15:23:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hell, most of us couldn’t even explain how any electrical device more complex than a motor works. > > We accept these things _on faith_- faith in people smarter than us. I don’t need faith to see that the electrical devices work. And I don’t consider the Big Bang remotely important or I’d educate myself about it. That isn’t “faith.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/249 "2009-07-31T15:28:02Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t need faith to see that the electrical devices work. And I don’t consider the Big Bang remotely important or I’d educate myself about it. That isn’t “faith.” You’re missing the point. It’s not about _why_ you don’t understand the Big Bang- obviously, most people don’t have time to earn a doctorate in everything they want to understand better. It’s simply about the fact that you don’t. You can’t verify everything for yourself; it’s not a failing, just an fact. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/250 "2009-07-31T15:30:20Z")
But I don’t claim to understand the Big Bang. I have no idea if it’s the correct theory. So where is the faith part coming in? ETA: When people want to shout “You do it, too!” perhaps they should first ascertain who, in fact, “does it, too.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/251 "2009-07-31T15:41:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > But I don’t claim to understand the Big Bang. I have no idea if it’s the correct theory. So where is the faith part coming in? Well, then I’m not talking about you. Most non-believers (myself included) would automatically answer “the Big Bang” when asked where the universe came from. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/252 "2009-07-31T15:58:22Z")
I don’t accept jack shit on faith. Speak for yourself. One major difference between religious authority and science is that you at least CAN verify the science if you want to. Nothing in science is accepted on anybody’s say-so. ---
**Author:** ![Nation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@Nation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nation)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/253 "2009-07-31T16:00:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You know, if **Nation** wasn’t such a total douche, it would be easier to spot the grain of truth in his argument. > > Since he _is_ a total douche, I’ll point it out. > > Most atheists (most people, for that matter) don’t understand the scientific basis for much of what they presume to be true. Few, if any, of us participating in this thread have anything more than the most basic understanding of the Big Bang theory, quantum physics, and while we’re better versed in evolution- having debated it _ad nauseam_- we’re a bit iffy on that one too. > > Hell, most of us couldn’t even explain how any electrical device more complex than a motor works. > > We accept these things _on faith_- faith in people smarter than us. Now, there’s an _element_ of reason in there; I accept that the Big Bang theory is probably true because the people who tell me it is _also_ told me other things which I was able to verify for myself. It’s kind of a logical fallacy, though. I accept Stephen Hawking’s model of the universe because I accept High School Physics Professor X’s model of an aerofoil, and he says Stephen Hawking is right. Call it the fallacy of truth by association. > > Now, here’s the difference between explanations based on religious faith and those based on science: sources. > > Stephen Hawking is a secondary source, speaking in my own time, to people I’ve met. God is, at best a tertiary source, who may not actually have existed, speaking ~2,000 years ago (adjust time delay according to religion of your choice)- to people who may not actually have existed themselves. The people who try to explain God’s model of the universe to me not only don’t understand it themselves, they don’t know anyone who does. > > Hmmm… that took an awful lot longer to type than I thought it would. > > ETA: Forgot to make a point! Well, here it is: although scientific theories do a much better job of explaining the universe, they’re not infallible and more importantly, neither are the people promulgating them. It’s therefore foolish to absolutely rule out the existence some sort of higher power. Better to file it under “unverified”. You try and have a conversation with someone who tells you, because you believe in a God that youre stupid, dumb, fairy tale believer, you name it, and youre supposed to be NICE to these types of people? Fuck that and fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/254 "2009-07-31T16:01:26Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > Fuck that and fuck you. Not in this lifetime, son. > [@](#): > > I don’t accept jack shit on faith. Speak for yourself. One major difference between religious authority and science is that you at least CAN verify the science if you want to. Nothing in science is accepted on anybody’s say-so. Sure, but you don’t, for the most part. Hence the element of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/255 "2009-07-31T16:03:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, then I’m not talking about you. Most non-believers (myself included) would automatically answer “the Big Bang” when asked where the universe came from. The Big Bang is pretty easy to understand. It’s really not all that esoteric. The inferential, and even direct evidence for it can be explained an understood at even a middle school level. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/256 "2009-07-31T16:04:33Z")
I’m fine with “I don’t know, but I’m working on it.” The big bang makes more sense than a conscious sky vibe (huh?) who creates beings that it either hates or is indifferent to, as part of a universe that has no apparent purpose as far as those beings are concerned. But hey…I’m willing to be corrected _if someone would just give me something I can work with._ ---
**Author:** ![Nation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@Nation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nation)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/257 "2009-07-31T16:08:14Z")
[http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html](http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html) [http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.html](http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/258 "2009-07-31T16:13:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure, but you don’t, for the most part. Hence the element of faith. Speak for yourself. You don’t know what I’ve independently read or verified. This is really a specious comparison anyway. Not understanding the mechanics of an airplane is not the same as “taking it on faith” that the mechanics work, and it does not rely on anybody’s self-appointed authority. The fact that it takes work and motivation to understand or personally verify some facet of scientific inquiry does not negate the fact that the avenue is _available_ in a way that nothing in religion ever has been. Science can provide evidence. Religion cannot. It’s just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/259 "2009-07-31T16:16:10Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > [http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html](http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html) > > [http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.html](http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.html) Yep. Lots of scientists believe in God. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/260 "2009-07-31T16:41:00Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > [http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html](http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html) > > [http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.html](http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.html) Just proves people can be smart or intelligent in one area yet be incredulous or ignorant in others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294.md?page=14)