# Seriously, how can anyone believe in religions like Christianity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294 "2009-07-26T04:37:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/141 "2009-07-28T12:25:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think you’re talking about the same sort of fear. Fear Itself (I didn’t realize how fitting the username was until I typed it) is talking about the existential fear that life is meaningless, short, and unfair. > > “What’s the point of living if you’re an atheist?” is a question I’ve seen come up again and again from the religious. They don’t have an answer to that question (neither do some atheists), so they fear it enormously. Atheist’s point of living is the same as most people,they were born to live now, not after they are dead. To live now only after one dies doesn’t make sense. If Genesis is true and the punishment for sin is death(not an eternity of suffering or a loss of soul as some believe) then even that seems to point that his life is to be lived well, to survive this life in the best way is to co-operate with the good of others as well as one’s self. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/142 "2009-07-28T12:49:53Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > OK, now you’re lying. I have _never_ said that religion might be true. Ever. I haven’t even implied it. I’m not telling you to treat religion like it isn’t a myth. _I_ treat religion like it’s a myth. That’s the definition of atheism. I’m not telling you anything. I’m calling you an idiot for thinking that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is mad and deficient. I’m saying that you’re a fool for just staying in your little mental headspace. What you do is lazy and cowardly. You agree religion is a myth. There is no chance it might be true. You agree there is no rational basis for believing in it. No evidence of any kind. Aren’t you saying the same thing he is, only with different words? What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/143 "2009-07-28T13:01:21Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > But I digress. No, you don’t digress, you’re getting pretty close to stalking. And I’d appreciate it if you would cut it out. Feel free to call me out should yous wish, and I will decide whether or not I care to respond. But trailing me around the forums just to post that you think I am a dick is quite dickish on your part - and I believe not what is expected on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/144 "2009-07-28T13:14:00Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > People tend to belive what they want to be true. They want something to believe in to make them morally superior to the guy next to them. At least that has been my experience. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/145 "2009-07-28T14:20:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > No, you don’t digress, you’re getting pretty close to stalking. > And I’d appreciate it if you would cut it out. > Feel free to call me out should yous wish, and I will decide whether or not I care to respond. > But trailing me around the forums just to post that you think I am a dick is quite dickish on your part - and I believe not what is expected on these forums. Fine. But the things you said about me in “that other dog-related thread” were pretty low. I’m perfectly willing to bury the hatchet. Olive branch extended. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/146 "2009-07-28T14:23:58Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Fine. But the things you said about me in “that other dog-related thread” were pretty low. > > I’m perfectly willing to bury the hatchet. > > Olive branch extended. If you wish to revisit that thread or start a new one, I’m fine with that. Otherwise, I have no desire to look for opportunities to exchange unpleasantries with you. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/147 "2009-07-28T14:29:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > If you wish to revisit that thread or start a new one, I’m fine with that. > Otherwise, I have no desire to look for opportunities to exchange unpleasantries with you. I’d rather just move forward and forget the whole affair. I don’t want to continue an internet feud with you or anyone else, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/148 "2009-07-28T14:32:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The best way to conceptualize it is think about what it was like before you were born. That’s what it’s like when you die. Of course, and if you really think about it it is terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/149 "2009-07-28T14:34:25Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > Of course, and if you really think about it it is terrifying. I find the idea of eternal, black sleep comforting, actually. If my belief in God renders any afterlife I may receive as something beyond that, then it’s just a bonus as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Morgis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Morgis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgis)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/150 "2009-07-28T14:54:50Z")
I haven’t been to church in at least 10 years and I’m not really sure that I would call myself a Christian, but I do believe that there is some sort of higher power out there. I couldn’t explain why or how I came to have this belief, and I can offer no proof. Maybe that makes me ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/151 "2009-07-28T15:10:20Z")
Well, no shock that we disagree on most of these points. Doubt there is any chance of either of us changing each other’s minds. I do appreciate your willingness to express your thoughts, tho. > [@mswas](#): > > **Dinsdale** Laws are most certainly distinct from morality. Smoking marijuana is illegal, it is by no means immoral. The fact that you may consider _some_ laws to be independent of morality (and I note others would disagree with you as to drugs) does not mean that _all_ laws are independent. Does this not reflect a set of ethical beliefs/a morality/a system of values independent of religion? _We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America._ > [@](#): > > As far as the science of the supernatural. It’s trivial. It doesn’t matter whether Jesus is real. If belief in Jesus allows you to overcome imprinted beliefs that’s pretty miraculous. I’d reference the work of Dr. Timothy Leary on this one. Quite utilitarian of you. Do you draw no distinctions between actions depending on whether they resulted from intentional choices, as opposed to being based on apparent delusions or simple blind luck? If the “science of the supernatural” is “trivial”, then why is not the belief itself? Isn’t what is truly important whether someone is “leading a good life”? Why does it matter whether one is leading such a life because they believe God wishes it, or whether they simply believe that is the right thing to do? > [@](#): > > The failures of individual Christians to be humble doesn’t make humility not a Christian virtue. Well, this reminds me of the criticism of communism. In theory it sounds like a heck of a system - too bad it simply does not work in practice with our species! When discussing the merits of religion, I believe it is definitely relevant to consider the degree and extent to which the apparnet practice comports with the purported theory. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/152 "2009-07-28T15:32:58Z")
> [@Morgis](#): > > …I do believe that there is some sort of higher power out there. I couldn’t explain why or how I came to have this belief, and I can offer no proof. Maybe that makes me ignorant. It doesn’t make you ignorant, but it suggests you’ve never _tried_ to explain (if only to yourself) why you believe it. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/153 "2009-07-28T15:44:28Z")
> [@Morgis](#): > > I haven’t been to church in at least 10 years and I’m not really sure that I would call myself a Christian, but I do believe that there is some sort of higher power out there. I couldn’t explain why or how I came to have this belief, and I can offer no proof. Maybe that makes me ignorant. Such an unfocused belief confuses me far less than folks who believe in some specific, very detailed version of the supernatural. ---
**Author:** ![Morgis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Morgis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgis)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/154 "2009-07-28T15:58:29Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > It doesn’t make you ignorant, but it suggests you’ve never _tried_ to explain (if only to yourself) why you believe it. Have you? I really don’t know. I look at the world around me and my gut reaction is that it isn’t all random and that something or someone out there is responsible for it. I can’t really explain it better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/155 "2009-07-28T16:14:24Z")
> [@Morgis](#): > > I really don’t know. I look at the world around me and my gut reaction is that it isn’t all random and that something or someone out there is responsible for it. I can’t really explain it better than that. While I personally do not have this type of reaction, I can understand it. What I CANNOT understand is why so many people think this “something or someone” insists that they wear certain attire, eat a special diet, perform certain rituals at certain times, etc. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/156 "2009-07-28T17:19:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The fact that you may consider _some_ laws to be independent of morality (and I note others would disagree with you as to drugs) does not mean that _all_ laws are independent. Does this not reflect a set of ethical beliefs/a morality/a system of values independent of religion? Morals precede laws. > [@](#): > > _We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America._ A nation may adopt a common moral code, but it is rarely the case that nations form around a moral standing. The United States is rather rare in this circumstance as opposed to people in say France or Iran who are bound by geography. > [@](#): > > Quite utilitarian of you. Do you draw no distinctions between actions depending on whether they resulted from intentional choices, as opposed to being based on apparent delusions or simple blind luck? This is just the language I speak to atheists in. > [@](#): > > If the “science of the supernatural” is “trivial”, then why is not the belief itself? Isn’t what is truly important whether someone is “leading a good life”? Why does it matter whether one is leading such a life because they believe God wishes it, or whether they simply believe that is the right thing to do? A good life is what matters. But we aren’t questioning whether or not atheism is a valid lifestyle, but whether or not Christianity is. > [@](#): > > Well, this reminds me of the criticism of communism. In theory it sounds like a heck of a system - too bad it simply does not work in practice with our species! When discussing the merits of religion, I believe it is definitely relevant to consider the degree and extent to which the apparnet practice comports with the purported theory. Christianity is not a political system in the way that communism is a political system. Christianity works just fine with our species. Perfect performance is a ridiculous standard to hold it to. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/157 "2009-07-28T19:15:44Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > A good life is what matters. Not all varieties of Christianity teach this, and those that do vary considerably as to what a “good life” entails. > [@mswas](#): > > Christianity works just fine with our species. Those of us who are not Christian would beg to differ. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/158 "2009-07-28T20:12:54Z")
> [@Morgis](#): > > I really don’t know. I look at the world around me and my gut reaction is that it isn’t all random and that something or someone out there is responsible for it. I can’t really explain it better than that. There seems to be two classes of people - those who are comfortable with there being no reason for all this, and those who aren’t. For the latter class, I don’t think there is anything wrong or ignorant about believing in a higher power for comfort. You said believe, not know, you didn’t offer any unsubstantiated claims about the world, and your higher power isn’t interested in my sex life and hasn’t deputized you to monitor it. So it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/159 "2009-07-28T20:19:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There seems to be two classes of people - those who are comfortable with there being no reason for all this, and those who aren’t. For the latter class, I don’t think there is anything wrong or ignorant about believing in a higher power for comfort. You said believe, not know, you didn’t offer any unsubstantiated claims about the world, and your higher power isn’t interested in my sex life and hasn’t deputized you to monitor it. So it’s all good. Yeah, but where did this higher power come from? I’m very uncomfortable with the idea of a god just randomly appearing out of nothingness. Maybe some kind of super-god… but, where did… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294/160 "2009-07-28T20:37:44Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Not all varieties of Christianity teach this, and those that do vary considerably as to what a “good life” entails. I never said it did. Follow the thread of the conversation. > [@](#): > > Those of us who are not Christian would beg to differ. Of course you would, but that’s because you expect it to deliver something it isn’t intended to deliver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-can-anyone-believe-in-religions-like-christianity/504294.md?page=9)