# Seriously, How in the Hell does Privatizing ANYTHING Make it Better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941 "2006-04-24T03:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/41 "2006-04-24T20:08:20Z")
> [@EEMan](#): > > There are 2 statues of Marx that I’m aware of on campus (well as long as you accept a bust as a statue); along with at least 4 plaques with quotes from him (I used to use their facility all the time while enrolled at UC Davis). > > That said, there is plenty of leftist ‘teaching’ going on (much like BJU does with the right). And you are still missing the point, I was talking in Haas. Point being that you can not even generalize a public institution. > [@](#): > > I would NEVER argue with a business professor (as business is SUCH a hard science); though I have plenty of statistics to back up my stance (Currently writting a Masters Thesis on Advertising and the Sucess of Companies who don’t (working on my MBA) ) And indeed in the class I took there were examples of successful companies that decided advertisement was not needed and **remained successful** … until a new product appeared and showed them the folly of that approach. IIRC even if successful, market share slipped during the no advertisement period. And I still think you ignore that some business don’t advertise at large because their products do fit a niche, so their advertisement is targeted so much so that you are confusing that with no advertisement. (“Stop casting porosity” anyone? 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/42 "2006-04-24T21:06:44Z")
Here’s my view. As a rule, private enterprise tends to produce a few companies/products/services that are very good, many that are middle of the road, and a great many that are awful or just scams. What the government offers is mediocrity; not much excellence, but seldom outright fraud or disaster. For example, the public education system may not be perfect, but it reaches just about everybody; including those who would be unable to get a private education. A state funded fire department serves everyone; a private one wouldn’t. Social Security is perhaps not as good as the best private investment, but it’s better than the nothing many would get without it. In other words, if you’re looking for brilliant successes, look to the private sector. If you’re looking to avoid failure, go to the government. It’s a matter of what’s more approprate for the problem at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/43 "2006-04-24T23:55:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Would you rather go to a private college or a state college? Berkeley vs. Bob Jones? Hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/44 "2006-04-25T00:58:25Z")
Quoting an analogy from Neal Boortz (I don’t have a link, but let this be the cite): > [@](#): > > Imagine government grocery stores. Groceries are essential, aren’t they? Come on, you have to eat! So let’s say that about 100 years ago someone came up with the brilliant idea of establishing a system of government-run grocery stores. To make sure that every American got enough to eat, local governments created a nutrition tax. All property owners had to pay a nutrition tax every year amounting to thousands of dollars. Under this great government plan you are assigned to a grocery store when you move into a neighborhood. Every year the local government creates a credit for you at this grocery store; an account in your name. When you want to buy groceries you have to go to this store and no other. Would your assigned grocery store feel any pressure to make sure that you get the best quality foods? Would this grocery store work hard to determine what its customers want? Would you be assured of the latest technology and products? The answer to all of these questions is, of course, no! Why would they? What do they have to fear? Competition? There IS no competition! The citizen’s money is taken away from him by force and put into an account at one particular grocery store, and no other store. If you want to go to a private, non-government-operated grocery store you are going to have to dig into your own pockets and spend even more money! You’re trapped, and the grocery store managers and employees know it. There is no real need to deliver a quality shopping experience or the best products. Instead of focusing on their customers these managers and employees focus on getting even more money and benefits from the government. > > Oh … and government grocery store clerks would be focusing on one more thing … preventing competition. Every once in a while someone is going to step forward with a rather radical idea. Someone is going to suggest that people be given vouchers equal to the amount they pay in grocery taxes so that they, like their rich neighbors, can go shop at those private grocery stores where fresher food and a wider variety of products are available! As soon as this suggestion is made the managers and employees of the government grocery stores are going to erupt into howls of anguish. They will say that this is all a plot to destroy public grocery stores. They will wail that groceries are a necessity and that there should not be any competition in the selling of those groceries. They will watch every politician like a hawk, making sure that none of them even utter so much as a hint that they might be willing to consider the idea of grocery vouchers, and they’ll build a government employee union that is so strong and so far-reaching that only the boldest of politicians would dare to cross that line. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/45 "2006-04-25T01:00:27Z")
^^^[linky](http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02242006.html)^^^ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/46 "2006-04-25T02:01:02Z")
Sounds to me like Neal Boortz just loves to make huge straw men. I can count with my fingers the extremists I know that maybe would like that kind of system, almost needless to say, all liberals I know don’t approve of a system like that. And on the link he has a nice graphic saying that to support education we should end government schools. Nice trolling from Boortz. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/47 "2006-04-25T02:10:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sounds to me like Neal Boortz just loves to make huge straw men. > > I can count with my fingers the extremists I know that maybe would like that kind of system, almost needless to say, all liberals I know don’t approve of a system like that. > > And on the link he has a nice graphic saying that to support education we should end government schools. Nice trolling from Boortz. BTW, I am coming from the angle that Boorts just ignores on purpose how we got the system we have, I do think Boortz is just babbling. And as poor family members would be affected in his world, I have to say to him to keep on dreaming. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/48 "2006-04-25T05:25:47Z")
So is everyone who disagrees with you an extremist? Boortz’s point was that, in theory, privatization puts a premium on efficiency via competition: the market rewards efficiency, and punishes inefficiency. Ditto for competency and excellence. In theory, privatization truly treats the people as customers, whereas government views people as captive sources of income. See for example, the saga of Sandy Springs, Georgia. Unfortunately, it is easy to derail the process by corrupting it. Take the Atlanta Water Debacle, for example. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/49 "2006-04-25T05:55:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > BTW, I am coming from the angle that Boorts just ignores on purpose how we got the system we have, I do think Boortz is just babbling. Why is “how we got the system” so important? Sure we should be aware of its genesis, but that hardly means that in the world we live in today it is the best model for delivering education to all children. Times change. The school year we have was structured upon children having to work on the farm during the growing months. It used to be that one school served a geogrphically large community. Now, with the densities in cities, another education model, via school choice, becomes available. It’s certainly worth considering the world we in today rather than slavishly paying homage to an idea that was a good one in another time. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/50 "2006-04-25T06:26:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why is “how we got the system” so important? Sure we should be aware of its genesis, but that hardly means that in the world we live in today it is the best model for delivering education to all children. Times change. The school year we have was structured upon children having to work on the farm during the growing months. It used to be that one school served a geogrphically large community. Now, with the densities in cities, another education model, via school choice, becomes available. It’s certainly worth considering the world we in today rather than slavishly paying homage to an idea that was a good one in another time. Of course time changes, but it is important to keep in mind how we got the current system, because it is a reality that a good number of the public schools originated as a way to keep children separate from “undesirable cultures” and races, that plan fell apart when suddenly they were forced to accept all in schools. Vouchers are just a way to attempt to turn back the clock for guys like Boortz. > [@cerberus](#): > > So is everyone who disagrees with you an extremist? If you read my first post here you will see what you mention here makes no sence. Take a look at the fine graphic in Boortz site of a licence plate regarding public education and tell me if Boortz is not an example of an extremist. > [@](#): > > Boortz’s point was that, in theory, privatization puts a premium on efficiency via competition: the market rewards efficiency, and punishes inefficiency. Ditto for competency and excellence. In theory, privatization truly treats the people as customers, whereas government views people as captive sources of income. See for example, the saga of Sandy Springs, Georgia. Unfortunately, it is easy to derail the process by corrupting it. Take the Atlanta Water Debacle, for example. That is theory all right, before coming to Arizona Californians found the hard way that private charter schools were not all what they claimed to be: [http://pasaorg.tripod.com/charters/charters.html](http://pasaorg.tripod.com/charters/charters.html) > [@](#): > > Do charters outperform traditional public schools? No, admits charter icon Reed Hastings, president of the California state Board of Education. At a December symposium in San Francisco, Hastings acknowledged that charters don’t surpass other schools and called upon them to do better - based on a competitive fervor that shouldn’t exist. > > California’s original laws creating charters stipulated that they should outperform public schools - again, a mistake. The playing field is too unlevel to allow for competition. Charters operate under far fewer rules. Among key differences: Many of them can, and do, pick and choose students as most public schools can’t. Public schools that do - such as San Francisco’s nationally recognized Lowell High School - outperform others, including charters. > > Some California charter voices express resentment that charters must find and rent their sites. But that’s been an open tradeoff all along for freedom from the Education Code’s constrictions. It doesn’t justify disdain for traditional public schools. > > Thorp and Hastings know this, but word hasn’t always gotten out to the wider charter community. A San Francisco charter parent wrote The Chronicle recently describing her family’s elementary school as “a bright light in a dark world of floundering public schools.” > > That statement has two problems: Its disdain and divisiveness are inappropriate and damaging - to all schools and children. And achievement statistics don’t confirm that the school is superior to the “dark world” of public schools. While parents with children at that charter who love it, and while test scores are only part of the equation, the school in question ranks No. 44 of 75 San Francisco schools based on the state’s Academic Performance In similar vein, during last spring’s furor over San Francisco’s controversial, for-profit Edison Charter Academy (ECA), Edison’s PR maneuvers earned the district a brutal bashing from local and international media. New York-based Edison Schools touted ECA as a “successful school in a failing district,” when it was actually the district’s lowest-performing school. Elements within CANEC participated in the deceit and inflamed the attacks. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/51 "2006-04-25T06:45:06Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Title pretty much says it all. I’m against privatizing things, at least, as far as I know this moment. > > The FDA, education, and law enforcement come to mind. Sort of depends on your experience. If you take a look at experiences outside the US, you see that having government-run airlines, car manufacturers, coal mines, IT companies, etc. etc. etc. has a pretty poor record. Imagine GM, run by the same people who run the DMV, as a monopoly provider of cars to the US market. Not such a good thing. On the other hand, things like water provision are to some extent natural monopolies, which make it hard to prevent private owners running them for their own benefit. Ditto for law enforcement and regulation. Edumacation, experiences are mixed. Have a google around the subject and you’ll see plenty of examples where it has worked well, and plenty of disasters (Britain is a good case study)- just don’t assume that what you see in the US (a weird mixture of free-market fundamentalism and hard-core socialism) is the natural state of things - it’s one set of solutions to a universal problem, not necessarily the best or the worst. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/52 "2006-04-25T06:57:45Z")
Boortz can be a pill at times. You link to a site that advocates public education in the San Francisco area? I’m supposed to trust a group that _a priori_ believes that anything but the public model is anathema can objectively evaluate charters? Find me an objective source, and maybe I’ll believe you. I’ll also ask you to understand that there is a continuum of charter models out there, and that individual failures of the charter systems do not invalidate the entire process. Lord knows that multiple and widespread failures of the public school model haven’t broken the faithful who believe in the public model. There are also non-charter schools that serve as competition to the public system: private schools that operate parallel to the public systems. The failure of the competitive model can at times be laid at the feet of government interference. The private model seems to work quite well for the private colleges and universities. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/53 "2006-04-25T07:25:02Z")
The only real pro I see with privitization is innovation. Competition would lead to innovation in order to maintain a certain share of market value. A cheaper laptop with better broadband and more durability is going to outsell a clunky one with crappy dialup. However even this isn’t true. The US Federal research budget in 2007 will be $137.2 billion. [http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:R0Qrps-Htr4J:www.ostp.gov/html/budget/2007/2007FactSheet.pdf+2007+federal+budget+science+research&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9](http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:R0Qrps-Htr4J:www.ostp.gov/html/budget/2007/2007FactSheet.pdf+2007+federal+budget+science+research&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9) And that is just federal research, not including state research. Considering that in the US we spend about 3% of GDP on research we are spending about $300 billion annually. So public funds are already outpacing private funds at R&D, public funds only make up about 30% of the economy but they make up over half of research funds (including state funds). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/54 "2006-04-25T07:29:13Z")
The problem with Boortz argument is that alot of government funds end up subcontracted to private companies, or to purchase goods from private companies. Those private companies need to compete for government contracts. Another is that most people don’t like taxation. So there will always be calls to cut funding and budgets, leading to government organizations trying to improve themselves to maintain their budgets. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/55 "2006-04-25T07:42:00Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > Boortz can be a pill at times. > > You link to a site that advocates public education in the San Francisco area? I’m supposed to trust a group that _a priori_ believes that anything but the public model is anathema can objectively evaluate charters? Find me an objective source, and maybe I’ll believe you. I’ll also ask you to understand that there is a continuum of charter models out there, and that individual failures of the charter systems do not invalidate the entire process. Lord knows that multiple and widespread failures of the public school model haven’t broken the faithful who believe in the public model. > > There are also non-charter schools that serve as competition to the public system: private schools that operate parallel to the public systems. > > The failure of the competitive model can at times be laid at the feet of government interference. > > The private model seems to work quite well for the private colleges and universities. One reason I choose that quote was that in the end the parents are not dismissing private charters. In any case, it was all over the news at the time I was leaving California, the site just conveniently mentions the cases. It goes back to what my overall point is: sometimes privatization is good, sometimes is not, and many times I see the interference of government is needed to prevent abuse, there is no denying that there is abuse too in public institutions, but there are ways to deal with those. IMHO, regarding schools, private institutions are useful in finding what works, but I also think it goes the other way too. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/56 "2006-04-25T07:54:52Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > How would one privitize the FDA? It’s an agency that enforces the regulation of the private drug industry. You could transform it into something like [Underwriters Laboratories](http://www.ul.com). Let consumers know that the only way to know whether a drug has been proven safe or effective is to look for the FDA logo, but if they’re willing to take a risk, they can buy an unapproved drug (though their insurer won’t want to pay for it). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/57 "2006-04-25T07:58:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course time changes, but it is important to keep in mind how we got the current system, because it is a reality that a good number of the public schools originated as a way to keep children separate from “undesirable cultures” and races, that plan fell apart when suddenly they were forced to accept all in schools. Vouchers are just a way to attempt to turn back the clock for guys like Boortz. How are vouchers turning the clock back? On what? To what? They simply give parents a choice. In many bad areas, where they have the worst schools, charter schools (which operate outside the rules of public schools, much the way voucher schools do) have been a Godsend. Why would you want to keep a kid in a failing monopoly? Why NOT have schools compete for our tax dollars. The ones that do a better job educating the students get the money. What the hell is wrong with that? Other than the teachers’ unions no longer being able to keep the system hostage. You seem to be overly concerned with some fantasy agenda that someone on the other side of the debate may have. Who cares why he advocates it. Even if you’re right about his motivation, which I do not grant you, the idea deserves to be assessed on its merits. It could very well be that one could advocate the same things that Boorst, or anyone else, advocates, but for completely different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/58 "2006-04-25T08:12:07Z")
:eek: > [@](#): > > It goes back to what my overall point is: sometimes privatization is good, sometimes is not, and many times I see the interference of government is needed to prevent abuse, there is no denying that there is abuse too in public institutions, but there are ways to deal with those. IMHO, regarding schools, private institutions are useful in finding what works, but I also think it goes the other way too. :eek: Mein Gott, we agree on something. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/59 "2006-04-25T08:53:46Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > Boortz’s point was that, in theory, privatization puts a premium on efficiency via competition: the market rewards efficiency, and punishes inefficiency. Ditto for competency and excellence. Efficiency and excellence at _what_, that’s the question. You can succeed by producing a better product - or by being a better manipulator and liar. > [@cerberus](#): > > In theory, privatization truly treats the people as customers, whereas government views people as captive sources of income. Now here’s where I disagree. The government views people as voters at best, numbers in a file at worst. I doubt many outside the IRS really think of us as “captive sources of income”, if even them. As far as being a customer goes, remember that customer = prey. It’s not the job of a business to make you happy or perform a service or make a product; it’s purpose is to extract as much money from it’s customers as possible while providing as little service as possible. That, after all, is why corporate monopolies are so bad, and why natural monopolies should either be run by or heavily controlled by the government. At least you have the leverage of voting over the government; you have none at all over a corporate monopoly. _They_ are the ones with “captive sources of income”. > [@magellan01](#): > > How are vouchers turning the clock back? On what? To what? They simply give parents a choice. No they don’t. A private school will take the students it likes, and leave the rest behind. Vouchers would help the private schools drain off the best students, and leave the public schools with the poorest, most emotionally unstable, stupid, or outright criminal. They are paid per student, so they’ll be expected to do more with less as well. Like others, I think the whole point of vouchers is to _destroy_ the public schools, along with the lower-income and/or minority students. > [@magellan01](#): > > Why NOT have schools compete for our tax dollars. The ones that do a better job educating the students get the money. Not with such a grotesquely unlevel playing field. It’s not a fair race if you’re on foot and I have a motercycle. > [@magellan01](#): > > Who cares why he advocates it. Even if you’re right about his motivation, which I do not grant you, the idea deserves to be assessed on its merits. Intentions matter. If I’m given a fair looking offer by someone who is the enemy of me or my agenda, it’s foolish to believe it’s actually fair; it’s more likely I haven’t figured out the trap. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941/60 "2006-04-25T09:02:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How are vouchers turning the clock back? On what? To what? They simply give parents a choice. In many bad areas, where they have the worst schools, charter schools (which operate outside the rules of public schools, much the way voucher schools do) have been a Godsend. Why would you want to keep a kid in a failing monopoly? Well that would be news to my conservative family members with straight A kids in public schools. > [@](#): > > Why NOT have schools compete for our tax dollars. The ones that do a better job educating the students get the money. What the hell is wrong with that? Other than the teachers’ unions no longer being able to keep the system hostage. As my relatives informed me, at least in california, the kids had the choice to select their schools, I do think you are working in the past here. > [@](#): > > You seem to be overly concerned with some fantasy agenda that someone on the other side of the debate may have. After what I mentioned here and in other threads, I still see you as the one proposing ideas from fantasy. > [@](#): > > Who cares why he advocates it. Even if you’re right about his motivation, which I do not grant you, the idea deserves to be assessed on its merits. It could very well be that one could advocate the same things that Boorst, or anyone else, advocates, but for completely different reasons. Nah, too radical for many. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-how-in-the-hell-does-privatizing-anything-make-it-better/353941.md?page=4)