# Seriously, is Trump a Functional Illiterate? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819 "2017-02-14T15:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/41 "2017-02-14T18:47:27Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’d disagree; I think he’s somewhere above normal intelligence overall. Intelligence has nothing to do with dyslexia or illiteracy, in some/many cases. > I think it, and his whole style, is the result of (1) a reasonably intelligent person who (2) has difficulty with written information [from dyslexia, ADHD or just laziness] and (3) could get away with blustering misdirection from an early age. He can’t maintain a complicated discourse very long (see reasons above) and so has evolved to this blustering, vague razzle-dazzle persona. Money let him. As I said in another thread I get the vibe of someone who is not of inferior intelligence or literacy skills, but rather who finds intellectual/academic work to be a chore and a bore. Who at school will read up on what will be on the test and count for the grade if he absolutely has to, and get a decent grade because of being competitive, not because of being scholarly – doing it for the score, not for the learning, and will forget about it two weeks after finals. That person once he’s boss of his own outfit he will ask for the major background points as summarized as possible before the meeting and then he’ll take it from there with the razzledazzle Always Be Closing bluster. And why even read something you cannot monetize. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/42 "2017-02-14T19:01:10Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I really really love all these propaganda pieces shouting Trump is crude, stupid, illiterate, slobbering, easily manipulated, foolish, lewd, hot-tempered, thin-skinned, narcissistic, misogynistic, brutish, bullying, lying, mentally ill, unstable, temperamentally unfit, dangerous, insecure, treasonous, ignorant, paranoid, demented and gibbers like a baboon in the heat of the night. > > Allow it all, and what the hell does it say about half-wit Hillary that she lost to such a clown ? It doesn’t say anything bad about Clinton. It’s just more evidence she was the better choice. It’s the people who voted for Trump instead of Clinton who need to explain themselves. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/43 "2017-02-14T19:07:05Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > Yes, it’s absolutely possible, and very probable, in his case. I’m actually surprised that people are surprised by this. The rich are (for the most part) not better, cleverer, stronger than us; they’re just richer. And that money buys them (and their children, more often) degrees all. the. time. Not to be a jerk, but do you have any proof? That’s not the way that wealth and influence typically work in the US. It’s not typically blatant bribery and what-not, as that’s illegal, and the more blatant, the more easily it’s detected. So rather than do it outright, it’s all done within the facade of legitimate operations. To me, it’s more obnoxious how that stuff works after school than in the getting in/getting a degree part. I’m far more offended that some guy can skate through college and get a lucrative job with a high-powered company based on who his dad is. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/44 "2017-02-14T19:07:44Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I really really love all these propaganda pieces shouting Trump is crude, stupid, illiterate, slobbering, easily manipulated, foolish, lewd, hot-tempered, thin-skinned, narcissistic, misogynistic, brutish, bullying, lying, mentally ill, unstable, temperamentally unfit, dangerous, insecure, treasonous, ignorant, paranoid, demented and gibbers like a baboon in the heat of the night. > > Allow it all, and what the hell does it say about half-wit Hillary that she lost to such a clown ? She didn’t lose. She won by three million votes. He became the so-called President on a technicality. And don’t you forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/45 "2017-02-14T19:44:11Z")
In the sense of the Constitution is a technicality, sure. And we aren’t going to forget it. We are just going to not give a shit, because “he won fair and square” is at least as true. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/46 "2017-02-14T19:47:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you think it’s possible for someone to have graduated from an Ivy League University as a “functional illiterate”? He also graduated 40+ years ago. I’ve known several people who completely stopped any voluntary reading or learning the moment they graduated, so it wouldn’t surprise me if Trump, being rich and privileged, he has just slid backwards and only reads something if he absolutely has to. Reading is a skill that needs to be kept in practice, just like any other. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/47 "2017-02-14T19:47:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not to be a jerk, but do you have any proof? > > That’s not the way that wealth and influence typically work in the US. It’s not typically blatant bribery and what-not, as that’s illegal, and the more blatant, the more easily it’s detected. So rather than do it outright, it’s all done within the facade of legitimate operations. > > To me, it’s more obnoxious how that stuff works after school than in the getting in/getting a degree part. I’m far more offended that some guy can skate through college and get a lucrative job with a high-powered company based on who his dad is. I don’t have proof I can share, no. I realize anecdotal evidence is just that, but there’s a large pile of it, anyway. What do you mean “blatant bribery”? I’m saying that it happens exactly the way you describe in your last paragraph. They get in to the schools based on parental/family influence and donations and they skate through school because Mr. or Mrs. President of the University and the board members are not going to slap Junior’s hand over infractions and they’re going to do all they can to make sure he graduates. That doesn’t even count the cheating that Junior is paying for on his own. And obviously, the cush job follows graduation. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/48 "2017-02-14T19:59:32Z")
The details about Trump’s briefing preferences - single page, bullets (but not _too many_ bullets), lotsa graphics and maps - made me laugh when they were leaked, because those are pretty much the guidelines I use when designing handouts for the classes I teach to teenage delinquents, many of whom are designated English Language Learners (what we used to call ESL). I wonder if the people doing the daily briefings have discovered “scaffolding” yet. [Instructional scaffolding - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/49 "2017-02-14T20:05:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In the sense of the Constitution is a technicality, sure. > > And we aren’t going to forget it. We are just going to not give a shit, because “he won fair and square” is at least as true. > > Regards, > Shodan However, no matter how many times he says it, it was not a landslide\*, more people voted against him than for him and he does not have a mandate. \*In fact, his Electoral margin was only [46th out of 58 elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_Electoral_College_margin). ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/50 "2017-02-14T20:52:33Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Or, although it’s a different case, can make three-pointers from 75 feet. > > Really, John, you believe that every child of extreme privilege that gets through an Ivy did so on his own brains and initiative? Making the 3-pointer can you _in_ to the school. It cannot get you the degree. Just like having money can get you in, and can smooth over a lot of problems, get you a lot of help not available to others, get educators to look the other way on certain things…but overlooking functional illiteracy? > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Could this be possible? I’ve seen a few Youtube pieces claiming that Trump is illiterate using video clips of Trump being asked to read leases and such like, and he just glances at the paper, and summarizes what he thinks the lease says. That sounds a lot more like impatience and arrogance than proof of illiteracy. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/51 "2017-02-14T20:53:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In the sense of the Constitution is a technicality, sure. > > And we aren’t going to forget it. We are just going to not give a shit, because “he won fair and square” is at least as true. > > Regards, > Shodan I know “he won fair and square.” I was addressing **Evan Drake’s** question: _"what the hell does it say about half-wit Hillary that she lost to such a clown?_" IOW it says nothing, because she didn’t lose to such a clown; she won the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/52 "2017-02-14T21:02:04Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Making the 3-pointer can you _in_ to the school. It cannot get you the degree. Just like having money can get you in, and can smooth over a lot of problems, get you a lot of help not available to others, get educators to look the other way on certain things…but overlooking functional illiteracy? > > That sounds a lot more like impatience and arrogance than proof of illiteracy. It can be done. A good bluffer can pull the wool over many a teacher’s eyes. I’ve read stories about executives who bluffed their way to the top of companies with a combination of good memory and a wife/girlfriend who read things to them. I’ll look for some articles-- I know I read one in the WSJ years ago. ETA: [Here’s](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C01E1DD103DF932A05753C1A9629C8B63) sort of an example, but I’ll keep looking: > [@](#): > > LITERACY experts say that 20 percent of the population of the United States cannot read or write English proficiently. In New York City alone there are more than one million adults who are so lacking in skills that they cannot fill out application forms or read basic contracts, according to Literacy Partners Inc., a nonprofit group that instructs such people. > > While Literacy Partners says such a handicap keeps many from becoming employed, there are also hundreds of thousands who are underemployed and tens of thousands who are hiding their lack of basic skills from an employer. > > They are people like Vanessa, a 38-year-old from the Bronx who works for a private agency that contracts with the Board of Education to provide therapy for disabled schoolchildren – her clients are afflicted with illnesses from asthma to bone disease. > > Vanessa asked to be referred to only by her middle name because she feared that her bosses might find out she cannot read. She has never told them and has amorphous fears about exactly what would happen if she did. ‘‘To tell you the truth I don’t honestly know what they’d do,’’ she said, ‘‘but for me it is a dark secret and embarrassing. I am not comfortable with it and I will keep it confidential until I am.’’ … ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/53 "2017-02-14T21:10:31Z")
[This](https://www.facebook.com/notes/literacy-support-council-of-placer-county/read-to-me-grandpa/1060109660723575/) is not a gold-plated authority, just another anecdote to illustrate the point that people CAN get away with hiding their inability to read: > [@](#): > > Lewis’s two-year-old granddaughter thrust a book into his hands: “please read me this story, Grandpa!” But Lewis was speechless…because he couldn’t read. Lewis is 66 years old. A devoted family man, he has worked hard all of his life, harder than most people…because he couldn’t read. > > Telling lies - to hide his embarrassing lack of reading skills - was a way of life. He had managed to bluff his way through his working years, cleverly charming his workmates and supervisors. It wasn’t easy. Every workday he faced frightening challenges. Given paperwork to read and sign, he’d tell his boss he needed “to look it over more carefully” and “return it later,” or he would ask a coworker, "what does this say? I’ve forgotten my glasses. > > "During his working years, while his children were growing up, he had found plenty of excuses for his kids when they asked, “Daddy, can you help me with my homework?” Lewis had put them off every time: “ask your mother to help you,” or “my eyes are tired; I’ve been working all day.” > > But now, as a retiree slumped in his easy chair watching television, Lewis could not find any more excuses. At that moment, seeing his granddaughter’s eager face as she opened the book, he wanted to read to her. He knew that sharing a book would create special grandpa-granddaughter memories for her. This was Lewis’s decisive moment: he would finally ask for help. He would learn to read. > > Shockingly, one in five Americans - Americans whose first language is English - cannot read. … ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/54 "2017-02-14T21:52:24Z")
Star athletes generally have tutors for each subject in college. Many don’t need them, or wouldn’t if their major sport commitments weren’t such a time burden. It is, has generally been for the last 50 years, a tragedy that University coaches make 10 to 20 to 50 times the salary of the best professors, and that scholarship money is not being used for scholars. That said, I enjoy a good lose a knee and get a concussion game as much as anyone. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/55 "2017-02-14T22:08:29Z")
The evidence presented here is unconvincing regarding his supposed illiteracy. All I see is low intelligence and severely limited attention span. We knew that. It’s like the article I just read claiming he’s terrified of stairs, yet was accompanied by a dozen photos of him walking down stairs. “Tall, Top-Heavy Geezer Prefers to Use Escalator” doesn’t bait the clicks, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/56 "2017-02-14T22:16:53Z")
As a former college prof I’ve known Ivy League profs who really, really hate what the kids of the wealthy get away with. (Kurt Vonnegut regularly ranted about the special treatment of the rich kids he personally saw while doing the visiting prof thing during his later years as well.) They are treated specially. Especially in regards to obvious cheating. The parents pay for “tutors” and others to do assignments, write term papers, etc. Plus there are certain majors and classes that are simple enough for that to be all that’s needed to get by. It is a lot like the “special help” athletes get to stay eligible academically. College admins get around the normal rules for students when fame or fortune are involved. Trump has language issues. Look at his announcement of his Supreme Court pick. Many people pointed out during the campaign that his speeches were at the 4th grade level or so. He clearly is tweeting in his own words. They are English sentences (mostly) but often have grammar problems. OTOH we gotta give slack to tweets. I’d say his language abilities: reading, writing, speaking are at the 8th grade level at best. Not exactly functionally illiterate but well below what a PotUS should have. The argot of law, executive orders, court rulings, contracts, etc. are beyond his ken. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/57 "2017-02-14T22:20:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > She didn’t lose. She won by three million votes. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > …she won the popular vote. With all due respect, in our system that is meaningless. The popular vote is but an interesting sidebar, because everyone knows going in that it’s the electoral voting that counts. People in a state that will clearly be won by a given candidate don’t have nearly the incentive to cast their votes – which they know won’t affect the outcome – as those in a swing state. We have no way of knowing how many more people would have voted for either candidate _ **IF** _ it were decided by popular vote. It’s not at all implausible that Trump would have won the popular vote in a system where that is what mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/58 "2017-02-14T22:29:21Z")
It’d be nice if we could ignore the Trumpista baiters and not get sidetracked into election arguments just because they can’t get past them. But maybe that’s just me. Anyway, I have first-hand experience with illiterate adults no one suspected, as well. I was a bank teller in my youth, and a guy who ran… some fairly complex business and came in all the time brought me a letter about some bank fee or another. We went back and forth about it a little, and I was pointing to the paragraph that explained the why, and he finally leaned in and said, “I can’t read.” This was a white-collar business owner, probably $200-500k annually (this was ca. 1978), no one you would suspect of illiteracy. So it’s out there. I still have no question about Trump’s intelligence except that I don’t think he’s any genius… but I do think he has some functional/behavioral/cognitive problem with reading literacy. Even if it’s just “because I can,” it’s a little terrifying that we have a President who will not use the one channel that works to learn and grasp complex information. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/59 "2017-02-14T22:30:03Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > With all due respect, in our system that is meaningless. It doesn’t determine who gets to live in the White House, but it’s not meaningless. It means that the electee can’t rely on that his/her popularity to push policies through Congress. The makeup of Congress has the potential (in the absence of gerrymandering or other manipulation) to look more like the electorate as a whole, and this can produce a Congress that is absolutely at odds with the President. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/60 "2017-02-14T22:41:59Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > He also graduated 40+ years ago. I’ve known several people who completely stopped any voluntary reading or learning the moment they graduated, so it wouldn’t surprise me if Trump, being rich and privileged, he has just slid backwards and only reads something if he absolutely has to. Reading is a skill that needs to be kept in practice, just like any other. Rich, privileged _and lazy_ is the way I see it. Reading is hard so he avoids it. Sitting in front of a TV holding a remote is much less challenging. And because he avoids reading, it becomes harder. A vicious circle. I believe that this might also explain reports of his very short attention span. He never developed the analytical skills to delve into a subject beyond a single sheet of paper with no more than nine bullet points. This is indeed worrisome but had he surrounded himself with good people, we could probably live with it. Instead we Bannon et al. My god, it just dawned on me. We elected Chance the gardener: Steigler: Mr. Gardner, uh, my editors and I have been wondering if you would consider writing a book for us, something about your um, political philosophy, what do you say? Chance: I can’t write. Steigler: Ha ha, of course not, who can nowadays? Listen, I have trouble writing a postcard to my children. Look uhh, we can give you a six figure advance, I’ll provide you with the very best ghost-writer, proof-readers… Chance: I can’t read. Steigler: Of course you can’t! No one has the time! We, we glance at things, we watch television… Chance: I like to watch TV. Steigler: Oh, oh, oh sure you do. No one reads! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819.md?page=4)