# Seriously, is Trump a Functional Illiterate? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819 "2017-02-14T15:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/101 "2017-02-16T15:28:17Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I know for a fact that you can bribe your way into Wharton. My cousin did it. All it took was a $10,000 (in 1950 dollars, though) donation to get him in… A bargain! Jared Kushner’s poppa had to give Harvard two and a half million dollars to get him in. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/102 "2017-02-16T15:29:53Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > A bargain! Jared Kushner’s poppa had to give Harvard two and a half million dollars to get him in. Maybe there’s a sliding scale. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/103 "2017-02-17T20:44:26Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **John Mace** , functionally illiterate does not mean someone who can’t read. > > It can be someone who won’t read because he’d need to wear glasses and he’s too vain to admit that he needs “old person glasses”. > > It can be someone who hates reading, just won’t do it. > > It can be that person who will read only a very limited selection of material; the stereotype is the guy who will only read the headlines in the sports section, but that’s just an example. > > It can be someone who can read something out loud but who, if you ask them what did they read, can’t tell you if it was a recipe for salad or the lyrics for The Merry Widow. > > It’s, in fact, someone who can read inasmuch as reading is a mechanical act, but who either chooses not to do it or does not absorb the information conveyed by the text they’ve read. Your personal definition is so broad as to loose all meaning. I have never heard ‘functional illiterate’ to mean ANY of things you have here. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/104 "2017-02-17T21:03:02Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Your personal definition is so broad as to loose all meaning. I have never heard ‘functional illiterate’ to mean ANY of things you have here. Asked before… the difference between a man who can’t read and one who won’t read is… what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/105 "2017-02-17T21:29:44Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Asked before… the difference between a man who can’t read and one who won’t read is… what, exactly? The man who won’t read is still capable of reading. A man who can’t read simply _can’t_ read. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/106 "2017-02-17T21:38:23Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Asked before… the difference between a man who can’t read and one who won’t read is… what, exactly? I have sympathy for someone who cannot read. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/107 "2017-02-17T21:39:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The man who won’t read is still capable of reading. > > A man who can’t read simply _can’t_ read. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I have sympathy for someone who cannot read. Right. But what’s the functional difference? (None, IMHO.) Any more than there’s a functional difference between someone who’s blind and someone who refuses to open their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/108 "2017-02-17T21:42:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Right. But what’s the functional difference? (None, IMHO.) Any more than there’s a functional difference between someone who’s blind and someone who refuses to open their eyes. A man who won’t read can be…_persuaded_. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/109 "2017-02-17T22:32:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Right. But what’s the functional difference? (None, IMHO.) Any more than there’s a functional difference between someone who’s blind and someone who refuses to open their eyes. I agree with you, that there is no functional difference, in either case, they are limited in their ability to understand the world around them. My point is only that I would actually care about someone with a learning disability or some thing else beyond their control that prevents them from being able to read, while someone who is capable of reading, but chooses not to, has only my contempt. In the case of trump, he has had ever opportunity to learn to read, so he either can read, and chooses not to, or chose never to learn, in which case I have only contempt. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/110 "2017-02-18T12:46:39Z")
Professionals define “functional illiteracy” as the inability to read and write sufficiently well to perform the routine everyday tasks of living and working. The term is a matter of ability, not willingness. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/111 "2017-02-18T12:56:24Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Your personal definition is so broad as to loose all meaning. I have never heard ‘functional illiterate’ to mean ANY of things you have here. Did you do any reading up on the phrase “[functional illiteracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_illiteracy)”?[ > [@](#): > > Functional illiteracy is imprecisely defined, with different criteria from nation to nation, and study to study. However, a useful distinction can be made between pure illiteracy and functional illiteracy. Purely illiterate persons cannot read or write in any capacity, for all practical purposes. In contrast, **functionally illiterate persons can read and possibly write simple sentences with a limited vocabulary, but cannot read or write well enough to deal with the everyday requirements of life in their own society**. > > For example, an illiterate person may not understand the written words cat or dog, may not recognize the letters of the alphabet, and may be unable to write their own name. In contrast, **a functionally illiterate person may well understand these words and more, but might be incapable of reading and comprehending job advertisements, past-due notices, newspaper articles, banking paperwork, complex signs and posters, and so on**. > > The characteristics of functional illiteracy vary from one culture to another, as some cultures require better reading and writing skills than others. **A reading level that might be sufficient to make a farmer functionally literate in a rural area of a developing country might qualify as functional illiteracy in an urban area of a technologically advanced country**. In languages with regular spelling, functional illiteracy is usually defined simply as reading too slow for practical use, inability to effectively use dictionaries and written manuals, etc. ]([Functional illiteracy - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_illiteracy))(bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![warrenwr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5f9b8f/32.png) [@warrenwr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/warrenwr)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/112 "2017-02-18T13:19:11Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > The details about Trump’s briefing preferences - single page, bullets (but not _too many_ bullets), lotsa graphics and maps - made me laugh when they were leaked, because those are pretty much the guidelines I use when designing handouts for the classes I teach to teenage delinquents, many of whom are designated English Language Learners (what we used to call ESL). > > I wonder if the people doing the daily briefings have discovered “scaffolding” yet. [Instructional scaffolding - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding) Probably. The point remains: is the intended student ready for such an elaborate task as “problem solving” or “accepting responsibility”? Teaching the proverbial aging canine to sing wastes your time and smears its lipstick. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/113 "2017-02-18T14:37:45Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Re: Reading text out loud vs. understanding such text. > > Many of us can read a foreign language text out loud but have little idea what it says. I took a smattering of Russian in university. At that time I could read out Russian texts. But my comprehension level was very low unless it was designed for beginners. A few years latter I’d still be able to read it out loud and understand even less. > > Being able to read a speech off a teleprompter means zip in terms of literacy, language comprehension, etc. Are you claiming that English is a foreign language for Trump? Did you watch the video I linked to? Did you see that Trump was pausing now and then to make joking commentary about what he was saying? Could he do that if he didn’t understand what he was reading? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/114 "2017-02-18T17:00:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > My point is only that I would actually care about someone with a learning disability or some thing else beyond their control that prevents them from being able to read, while someone who is capable of reading, but chooses not to, has only my contempt. Of course. But that’s one step past the question. Since AO by his own admission and the observations of others _ **does not read** _, the cause is almost irrelevant. I’m not likely to feel sorry for him in any way if he actually has dyslexia or whatever; he’s had a lifetime and ample wealth to overcome the problem, just as many motivated peons have without his advantages. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Professionals define “functional illiteracy” as the inability to read and write sufficiently well to perform the routine everyday tasks of living and working. The term is a matter of ability, not willingness. We can argue semantics and invent a new term if you like - “autoenabled illiteracy” work for you? - but I maintain the cause of AO’s nonreading is effectively irrelevant. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you claiming that English is a foreign language for Trump? Did you watch the video I linked to? Did you see that Trump was pausing now and then to make joking commentary about what he was saying? Could he do that if he didn’t understand what he was reading? With practice, yes. And it’s not hard to stop and make a humorous remark that’s only vaguely associated with a topic; no one is going to, say, grade it on relevance and insight. The point in this sub-sub-thread is that almost anyone can read a well-written speech, whether it’s from Demosthenes or JJ Abrams, and sound pretty impressive even if they have almost no idea what they’re saying. So the occasional foray into effective oratory for AO doesn’t mean much one way or the other given his usual incoherent, raving babble that invariably returns to WOW WE WON HUGELY DIDN’T WE! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/115 "2017-02-18T17:03:00Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Professionals define “functional illiteracy” as the inability to read and write sufficiently well to perform the routine everyday tasks of living and working. The term is a matter of ability, not willingness. Professional jargon often differs from commonplace language. (Why are racial and religious groups “suspect” groups when it comes to civil rights? What are they suspected of?) People can be said to be functionally illiterate if they do not read, just as many people are indolent, even though they could exercise. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you claiming that English is a foreign language for Trump? . . . It seems to be a bit alien to him now and then. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/116 "2017-02-18T20:01:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you claiming that English is a foreign language for Trump? Did you watch the video I linked to? Did you see that Trump was pausing now and then to make joking commentary about what he was saying? Could he do that if he didn’t understand what he was reading? Good grief. No. Not remotely what I was saying. Someone, anyone, just reading something out doesn’t prove anything about literacy. OTOH, if someone is commenting on what they are reading, then that does say something. That’s a good point, but still with caveats. There were posts prior to mine that more or less just stopped at teleprompter reading. The teleprompter reading issue was the _only_ matter I was addressing. Repeat: the _only_ matter. Any other matter you can think of was not relevant to the issue _I_ was discussing. You want to talk about something _beyond_ that, no need to quote my post. Okay? Got that? Clear enough? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/117 "2017-02-18T20:12:42Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Good grief. > > No. Not remotely what I was saying. > > Someone, anyone, just reading something out doesn’t prove anything about literacy. > > OTOH, if someone is commenting on what they are reading, then that does say something. That’s a good point, but still with caveats. There were posts prior to mine that more or less just stopped at teleprompter reading. > > The teleprompter reading issue was the _only_ matter I was addressing. > > Repeat: the _only_ matter. > > Any other matter you can think of was not relevant to the issue _I_ was discussing. You want to talk about something _beyond_ that, no need to quote my post. > > Okay? Got that? Clear enough? If you’re not trying to make an observation about the discussion being had, then what are you trying to say? Sure, someone reading a text can’t tell you whether that person understands what he’s reading if you know nothing at all about that person and you know nothing at all about the material being read. But that’s not the case here. We know the guy is a native English speaker and we know that the text is not some arcane jargon that your average English speaker might not understand. So, in the case we are discussing in this thread the observation that “Being able to read a speech off a teleprompter means zip in terms of literacy, language comprehension, etc.” is flatly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/118 "2017-02-18T20:26:13Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > We can argue semantics and invent a new term if you like - “autoenabled illiteracy” work for you? - but I maintain the cause of AO’s nonreading is effectively irrelevant. I am not trying to split hairs over semantics. **Two Many Cats** posed a question about functional illiteracy without ever coming back to define it, so I am providing the definition used by people who deal with it professionally. If we want to talk about some characteristic other than functional illiteracy, fine with me, but let’s define what we’re talking about. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Professional jargon often differs from commonplace language. (Why are racial and religious groups “suspect” groups when it comes to civil rights? What are they suspected of?) > > People can be said to be functionally illiterate if they do not read, just as many people are indolent, even though they could exercise. This is not a matter of professional jargon, it’s \*the \*definition. Disregarding a consensus definition is like Humpty Dumpty. There is no commonly accepted definition of functional illiteracy that means that some is perfectly capable of reading and simply chooses not to for laziness or lack of interest. If you want to talk about that characteristic, we need to call it something else. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/119 "2017-02-18T23:55:49Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > [This](https://www.facebook.com/notes/literacy-support-council-of-placer-county/read-to-me-grandpa/1060109660723575/) is not a gold-plated authority, just another anecdote to illustrate the point that people CAN get away with hiding their inability to read: Another famous one is Harry Anderson of _Night Court_ fame. He’s pretty severely dyslexic and in an interview had described how he came to magic because the books had illustrations on how the tricks were done. He grew up an army brat and was able to do the same book report over and over again in different grades. He had his scripts read to him and memorized them and only admitted it as an adult when his wife called him out on it. Yes people can give speeches, having been read them a few times, or reading them ahead of time a few times struggling through it, while being severely reading disabled. Trump’s possible reading disability is not what concerns me about him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819/120 "2017-02-19T00:08:06Z")
I think one useful definition of functional illiteracy is the inability to obtain information from written material. It’s a common form of test question; test-takers read a passage of written text and then answer questions to demonstrate they were able to obtain information from the text. I can imagine people who could “read” a text but not be able to retain the meaning of the text they read. The information wouldn’t transfer from the page to their mind. In such a case, being able to deliver a speech from a written text wouldn’t prove the point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-is-trump-a-functional-illiterate/779819.md?page=7)