# Seriously? it's 2014 - "Kansas House passes bill allowing service refusal to gay couples" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 13, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286 "2014-02-13T23:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Vita\_Beata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@Vita\_Beata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vita_Beata)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/121 "2014-02-26T22:14:56Z")
Bricker, If I’m reading correctly, you may want to edit Proposition Z example. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/122 "2014-02-26T22:18:44Z")
> [@Vita\_Beata](#): > > Bricker, If I’m reading correctly, you may want to edit Proposition Z example. I don’t THINK so, but maybe I’m blind to my own error. What am I missing? (Note that I did make an edit before your post was up, but perhaps not before you started typing…so what I’m saying is I think I’m in good shape now, but please disabuse me of that notion if it’s untrue…) Bert contributes against the anti-SSM amendment and gets boycotted by Christian activists; Andy contributes in favor of the anti-SSM amendment and gets boycotted by LGBT activists. I think I captured that, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Vita\_Beata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@Vita\_Beata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vita_Beata)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/123 "2014-02-26T22:20:26Z")
It appears correct now as “to oppose Prop Z”. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/124 "2014-02-26T22:47:44Z")
Bricker- in either case, I don’t think it would be just to fire those people, because they are in no way using their work position for the cause. I would personally we live in a world where someone can lose their job and still be able to live without issue, but I know that’s not the case - given that, I don’t think it should be legal to fire people for what is essentially no work-related reason at all. Now, if the person in question started pressuring employees or customers, hanging up things at work, etc, then it would be a trickier issue. Luckily, as far as I’m aware, no LGBT groups have done boycotts just for places having homophobic employees - otherwise they’d have to boycott everywhere imaginable. Instead they have primarily targeted companies owned by people who fund anti-LGBT groups, or celebrities and public figures who use their position to promote causes. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/125 "2014-02-27T00:37:32Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Do you literally see no difference between the producer/supplier of a service or a consumer of a service? > > Can you point to a single person who lost their job due to “thought crimes”, or who people pushed to boycott for “thought crimes” against homosexuals ? Just one? Does the word Chick-Fil-A ring a bell?? What about Carrie Prejean?? . ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/126 "2014-02-27T00:47:18Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Luckily, as far as I’m aware, no LGBT groups have done boycotts just for places having homophobic employees - otherwise they’d have to boycott everywhere imaginable. Instead they have primarily targeted companies owned by people who fund anti-LGBT groups, or celebrities and public figures who use their position to promote causes. You don’t recall [this story?](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/gay-marriage-ba.html) > [@LA Times](#): > > Some opponents of Prop. 8 are threatening to boycott the businesses of people who donated money to the ballot measure that banned gay marriage in California. > > It was unclear how widespread the threats were, but an [latimes.com](http://latimes.com) database listing contributors to both sides of Proposition 8 saw a jump in traffic Wednesday. > > El Coyote, the well-known Mexican restaurant on Beverly Boulevard in Los Angeles, received calls threatening a boycott after it was reported that someone associated with the eatery contributed $100 to “Yes on 8.” > . > . > . > Word of the boycott has spread around websites and Facebook. “We should put our money where our mouth AND support is AND NOT AT EL COYOTE,” says a posting on one activist’s website. Or [this one?](http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2008/11/10/daily30.html) > [@](#): > > The board of directors of the California Musical Theatre canceled an emergency meeting called Tuesday afternoon to respond to a boycott called against the theater by gay and lesbian artists, according to published reports. > > The boycott was called by activists after bloggers revealed one of the theater company’s employees made a personal campaign contribution to the Yes on Proposition 8 Campaign. > Scott Eckern, the company’s artistic director and chief operating officer, made a $1,000 contribution to Yes on Prop. 8. Any contribution of $1,000 or more requires the donor to declare home city and occupation. Eckern was forced – or to be more clear. under threat of a boycott, he “chose” – to apologize by taking out an ad in the paper. > [@](#): > > The Web site [antigayblacklist.com](http://antigayblacklist.com) published a list of data from [electiontrack.com](http://electiontrack.com) of anyone who contributed more than $1,000 to Yes on Prop. 8. The site calls for activists not to patronize the businesses for which donors work. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/127 "2014-02-27T00:52:14Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > Does the word Chick-Fil-A ring a bell?? > > What about Carrie Prejean?? > > . Despite claims to the contrary, corporations are not individuals. And what job did Carrie Prejean lose? ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/128 "2014-02-27T00:56:28Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Despite claims to the contrary, corporations are not individuals. > > And what job did Carrie Prejean lose? That doesnt matter. Had the Chick-Fil-A boycott been successfull many individuals (AKA employees) wouldve lost their job(s). Prejean was stripped of her Miss California USA crown for simply stating her opinion when it was asked of her, and lost potential sponsorship deals because of it ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/129 "2014-02-27T01:07:57Z")
I don’t know how to answer Bricker’s hypothetical except to say that I personally would always support increased inclusiveness except if the parties ivolved were breaking the law (ie child pornographers). It is to be hoped that by embracing inclusiveness this would lead to a greater potential supply of customers and therfore a lesser impact from a boycott but as the Chik-fil-A case shows this is not always true. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/130 "2014-02-27T01:23:30Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > Does the word Chick-Fil-A ring a bell?? You apparently think donating money is the form of a thought, and not an action? You think boycotting a company run by a man who donated money to groups that fought against condemning a bill that makes homosexuality punishable by death is a “thought crime”. You think boycotting a company run by a man who donated money to groups that openly say they want to make homosexual actions illegal is a “thought crime”. Yes, I think we’re done here. You’ve shown you really are playing “devil’s advocate”. Let’s all be nice to the people who want to arrest and imprison homosexuals - they’re the REAL victims here! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/131 "2014-02-27T01:31:34Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Luckily, as far as I’m aware, no LGBT groups have done boycotts just for places having homophobic employees - otherwise they’d have to boycott everywhere imaginable. Instead they have primarily targeted companies owned by people who fund anti-LGBT groups, or celebrities and public figures who use their position to promote causes. Ahem… ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/132 "2014-02-27T01:32:22Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > Does the word Chick-Fil-A ring a bell?? > > What about Carrie Prejean?? > > . The chick that was stripped of her title because she clearly violated her contract with the pageant (and not with her answer on the question of Prop 8, incidentally)? Does not pass smell test. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/133 "2014-02-27T01:33:21Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > You apparently think donating money is the form of a thought, and not an action? > > You think boycotting a company run by a man who donated money to groups that fought against condemning a bill that makes homosexuality punishable by death is a “thought crime”. > > You think boycotting a company run by a man who donated money to groups that openly say they want to make homosexual actions illegal is a “thought crime”. > > Yes, I think we’re done here. You’ve shown you really are playing “devil’s advocate”. Let’s all be nice to the people who want to arrest and imprison homosexuals - they’re the REAL victims here! This is a pretty devastating rebuttal of **Esco** ’s “thought crime,” claim, to be sure. Not that it needed it; it was an extraordinarily weak argument. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/134 "2014-02-27T01:41:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You don’t recall [this story?](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/gay-marriage-ba.html) > > Or [this one?](http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2008/11/10/daily30.html) > > Eckern was forced – or to be more clear. under threat of a boycott, he “chose” – to apologize by taking out an ad in the paper. I literally do not recall that second story - I am fairly certain I have never seen it. As usual, you take on an accusatory tone that assumes everyone is lying, assuming I would remember something that happened a fifth of my life span ago about a guy who’s of so low note he doesn’t even have a wikipedia page and was the director of a place I never heard of that is three time zones away. I am so sorry I didn’t remember that. What should I do for my repentance? And while I was familiar with the first, no, I did not remember it until recently - largely because it appears to have been a one time thing. It was poor tactics from people who were understandably angry, and not picked up by any major groups. It was poor form, but it still doesn’t even come close to ‘thought crimes’ or to the amount of "hypocrisy of gay groups’. Some people temporarily organized five years ago and did a thing, and now you’re shamed with that thing forever? The bullshit of “poor persecuted little minority” and calling LGBT rights groups “crybabies” is just ridiculous. You know who’s the real hypocritical crybabies? The right wing. Look how much they sobbed over people exercising their free market rights that they supposedly support. Look at how much they sob and cry and complain on this message board over being told that hey, sometimes words changes definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/135 "2014-02-27T01:49:57Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I literally do not recall that second story - I am fairly certain I have never seen it. As usual, you take on an accusatory tone that assumes everyone is lying, assuming I would remember something that happened a fifth of my life span ago about a guy who’s of so low note he doesn’t even have a wikipedia page and was the director of a place I never heard of that is three time zones away. I am so sorry I didn’t remember that. What should I do for my repentance? I’m not accusing you, nor asking you to repent. To the extent that you did not know about, or did not recall, the incident, I wanted to remind you. > [@](#): > > And while I was familiar with the first, no, I did not remember it until recently - largely because it appears to have been a one time thing. It was poor tactics from people who were understandably angry, and not picked up by any major groups. It was poor form, but it still doesn’t even come close to ‘thought crimes’ or to the amount of "hypocrisy of gay groups’. I agree that “thought crimes” is an utterly indefensible and absurd charge. Hypocrisy of gay groups, though, may not be. In my opinion, and recalling the discussions here when those events occurred, I think it’s fair to say that many in the LGBT community were perfectly willing to apply a double standard: to support their right to boycott an establishment with an employee that donated to support Prop 8, and the right of the business to fire such an employee… while at the same time willing to defend the political expression rights of a person who donated money to fight Prop 8 and faced termination as a result. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/136 "2014-02-27T02:13:53Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > That doesnt matter. Had the Chick-Fil-A boycott been successfull many individuals (AKA employees) wouldve lost their job(s). Prejean was stripped of her Miss California USA crown for simply stating her opinion when it was asked of her, and lost potential sponsorship deals because of it Carrie Prejean did not lose her job for her political position, she lost her job for failure to fulfill her contract, and for writing a book in violation of the rules which said that any proceeds during her reign belonged to the Miss California organization. She was also found to be in violation because there were X-rated videos of her. The Chick-Fil-A _employees_ would not have lost their jobs because of their political positions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/137 "2014-02-27T02:17:30Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Chick-Fil-A _employees_ would not have lost their jobs because of their political positions. Had the boycott against Chick-Fil-A been successful, restaurants would have had less demand, and less need for staff to service that demand. Staff would have lost their jobs as a result of the boycott _regardless_ of their political positions. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/138 "2014-02-27T02:22:24Z")
Staff could have lost their jobs because of their employer’s political position, but not because of their own positions. Necessarily. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/139 "2014-02-27T04:20:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Staff could have lost their jobs because of their employer’s political position, but not because of their own positions. Necessarily. Well…yes, except that that has an aspect of victim-blaming. Why blame the employer’s political position? Why not blame the boycotters? Staff lose their job because the boycotters acted, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286/140 "2014-02-27T11:15:27Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > You apparently think donating money is the form of a thought, and not an action? > > You think boycotting a company run by a man who donated money to groups that fought against condemning a bill that makes homosexuality punishable by death is a “thought crime”. > > You think boycotting a company run by a man who donated money to groups that openly say they want to make homosexual actions illegal is a “thought crime”. > > Yes, I think we’re done here. You’ve shown you really are playing “devil’s advocate”. Let’s all be nice to the people who want to arrest and imprison homosexuals - they’re the REAL victims here! Dude, are you for real?? Nobody at Chick-Fil-A said they wanted gays put to death. The owner was simply against gay marriage: [Chick-fil-A and LGBTQ people - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A_same-sex_marriage_controversy) And while I disagree with him and think gays should be able to get married, boycotting some organization for their beliefs, and potentially harming innocent employees because of the boycott is simply wrong IMO. And these boycotts are becoming less and less about making a point, and more aboot revenge [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-its-2014-kansas-house-passes-bill-allowing-service-refusal-to-gay-couples/681286.md?page=8)