# Seriously though, the shoe thrower had been kidnapped and tortured **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193 "2008-12-15T02:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/1 "2008-12-15T02:09:38Z")
I know there’s another thread about this, but it’s mainly jokes and puns. I want to point out that the shoe thrower wasn’t just a random guy upset that his country had been invaded by incompetent fools, and that hundreds of thousands of his fellow countrymen, women and children had been killed, maimed, wounded and displaced, all because of a lie. For him, it was personal too. Thanks to DU for the links. > [@](#): > > [News article on his capture, Nov 16, 2007](http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSRYA67238820071118) > An Iraqi television journalist was kidnapped on Friday after leaving his home in Baghdad, Iraq’s Journalistic Freedoms Observatory said. > > Muntazer al-Zaidi, a correspondent for al-Baghdadiya television station, disappeared after leaving his home in a busy area of central Baghdad, the non-governmental organization said in a statement. > > Zaidi’s family said they had called his mobile phone in the afternoon, and confirmed he had been abducted, the group said. But his family did not receive any specific demands for his release. Zaidi is 26-years-old, it added. > > “The Journalistic Freedoms Observatory asks Zaidi’s kidnappers once more for his swift release for humanitarian reasons,” the group said in a statement…(more) > [@](#): > > [His release:](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L19159708.htm) > > Nov 19 (Reuters) - An Iraqi TV journalist who was kidnapped last week in a busy Baghdad neighbourhood said he was released unharmed before dawn on Monday. > > Muntazer al-Zaidi, a correspondent for the independent al- Baghdadiya television station, said he spent more than two days blindfolded, barely eating and drinking, after armed men forced him into a car as he walked to work on Friday morning in the bustling Bab al-Sharji area of central Baghdad. > > “My release is a miracle. I couldn’t believe I was still alive,” Zaidi, 28, told Reuters by telephone. > > Zaidi said the kidnappers had beaten him until he lost consciousness. They used his necktie to blindfold him and bound his hands with his shoelaces…(more) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/2 "2008-12-15T05:41:15Z")
And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/3 "2008-12-15T05:55:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. > > It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. So what you’re saying is that the slogan should switch from “Iraq is better off without Saddam !” to “Iraq’s no worse than with Saddam. Yet.” ? 😃 (I have no dogs in this race, BTW. But your second sentence did seem like a very odd comment to make) ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/4 "2008-12-15T05:56:20Z")
_stares at Bricker_ Okay. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/5 "2008-12-15T06:00:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. > > It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. Would he have been justified if he had thrown his shoes at Saddam in that case? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/6 "2008-12-15T06:25:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. > > It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. Of course Saddam was a monster - but he was _one_ monster, not dozens of rival militias. Most Iraqis could, and did, avoid pissing off that one monster most of the time - and when they did, they could live their lives. Baghdad had art, restaurants - it was a livable city before the war. I’m not saying it wasn’t bad to live under Saddam - it was. But the situation is clearly _worse_ now, and much of the blame for that is on us. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/7 "2008-12-15T07:37:44Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Of course Saddam was a monster - but he was _one_ monster, not dozens of rival militias. Most Iraqis could, and did, avoid pissing off that one monster most of the time - and when they did, they could live their lives. Baghdad had art, restaurants - it was a livable city before the war. I’m not saying it wasn’t bad to live under Saddam - it was. But the situation is clearly _worse_ now, and much of the blame for that is on us. And now the situation is turning around again. I’m not saying the invasion was managed properly (it sure as heck wasn’t, especially in the first phases of the occupation), but there is now a good chance of Iraq turning into a stable democracy. Sometimes things really do get worse before they get better. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/8 "2008-12-15T11:25:08Z")
How was he released unharmed if he was beaten unconscious? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/9 "2008-12-15T12:18:27Z")
One thing that I heard mentioned is that Sadam probably wouldn’t have lasted that long anyway if left alone. I can’t give a cite, but it seems that his Republican Guards, sufficiently motivated, wanted to get rid of him, and with a certain amount of planning they probably could have. Who knows what the result would have been, but the infrastructure and sectarian violence probably wouldn’t have become so bad as it is now, and the U.S. wouldn’t have had to become involved, spending hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives. The cost of U.S. amputees for the VA is going to be sky-high. While throwing your shoes at someone is uncouth, I can’t say I’d really blame the guy. Especially if he’d been kidnapped and tortured. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/10 "2008-12-15T14:47:12Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. [/QUOTE] It’s really a shame your boy Shrub’s vanity war hasn’t markedly improved Iraq over Saddam Hussein’s rule. Establishing rule of law would have been a nice first step but of course the venal little twit and his fanboys were busy at home, crapping on the Constitution. Shrub, the terrorist recruiter’s best friend. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/11 "2008-12-15T14:51:22Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Would he have been justified if he had thrown his shoes at Saddam in that case? When given the opportunity, Iraqis did throw shoes at Saddam. I don’t know if this one in particular did, but many did. Its a cultural thing. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/12 "2008-12-15T15:03:57Z")
I think the truly amazing thing is that according to Reuters, they not only managed to kidnap him for two days, but also stole 13-24 months of his life in the process. > [@](#): > > Zaidi is 26-years-old > [@](#): > > Zaidi, 28, told Reuters by telephone and the bastards couldn’t even be bothered to bring thier own rope. > [@](#): > > They used his necktie to blindfold him and bound his hands with his shoelaces and **Bricker** , I will also second the idea that ‘we are no worse than Saddam was’ is not the standard I want my country to sink to. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/13 "2008-12-15T15:19:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. > > It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. Certainly Rumsfeld didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/14 "2008-12-15T15:23:30Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > I think the truly amazing thing is that according to Reuters, they not only managed to kidnap him for two days, but also stole 13-24 months of his life in the process. You’ve heard the phrase “knock you into next week”. They just did that approximately 104 times. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/15 "2008-12-15T15:25:26Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > How was he released unharmed if he was beaten unconscious? It’s a scale thing. When one is kidnapped in Iraq and all that happens is that you’re beaten unconcious that’s relatively unharmed compared to others who haven’t fared quite as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/16 "2008-12-15T15:35:57Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Would he have been justified if he had thrown his shoes at Saddam in that case? No, he’d be dead. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/17 "2008-12-15T16:06:57Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > And now the situation is turning around again. I’m not saying the invasion was managed properly (it sure as heck wasn’t, especially in the first phases of the occupation), but there is now a good chance of Iraq turning into a stable democracy. There’s also a good chance that monkeys may fly out of my butt. Hey, quantum mechanics says that it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/18 "2008-12-15T17:14:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And Bush was mysteriously absent between Nov 16-19 of last year, so it’s obvious now what he was doing during that time. > > It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. For serious! Now all suspects get a fair and speedy trial in Baghdad, just like here. _Especially_ if captured by the good ole US of A, what with our Bill of Rights that is based truths that are self-evident. Ayeup. Good ole US and our rights. . .. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/19 "2008-12-15T17:22:12Z")
> [@](#): > > How was he released unharmed if he was beaten unconscious? He wasn’t really unconscious, he was just pining for the fjords. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/20 "2008-12-15T19:38:39Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Of course Saddam was a monster - but he was _one_ monster, not dozens of rival militias. Not to mention that he was \*their \*monster. People who tolerate abuse from family do not necessarily like it when strangers do the same. We humans are strange like that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193.md?page=2)