# Seriously though, the shoe thrower had been kidnapped and tortured **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193 "2008-12-15T02:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/21 "2008-12-15T19:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s really a shame, especially when you consider that no one in Baghdad ever needed to fear kidnap or beatings when Saddam Hussein was in charge. George Bush is the President of the United States. I’d like to think we could aspire to a higher standard than “he’s better than Saddam Hussein”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/22 "2008-12-15T20:36:26Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Not to mention that he was \*their \*monster. People who tolerate abuse from family do not necessarily like it when strangers do the same. So, if a [fourteen year old girl were to be kidnapped and raped](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030602-454453,00.html), it would bother the Iraqis less if it were committed by Saddam’s son than if it were committed by a militia? Or perhaps that several instances of torture of [journalists and political prisoners](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1112340.ece) are outweighed by this one instance of Bush being unable to prevent someone from allegedly being beaten unconscious/released unharmed? You’re right, that is strange. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/23 "2008-12-16T01:44:10Z")
Should we invade, occupy and kill/maim/displace the citizens of every country that flaunts human rights? Should we have gone into Uganda, or Argentina, or China, or any number of other countries? Should we have invaded Rwanda? Would you support invading Darfur? I realize that right wingers really loathe and despise Bush 41 for not finishing off Saddam, but why was it his son’s duty to finish what his father didn’t do, especially since Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and wasn’t a threat at the time? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/24 "2008-12-16T02:02:58Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > why was it his son’s duty to finish what his father didn’t do, especially since Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and wasn’t a threat at the time? “They tried to kill My Dad.” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/25 "2008-12-16T02:06:51Z")
Yep, there is that. What a great excuse for causing far more deaths and damage and instability than Saddam ever did. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/26 "2008-12-16T02:08:44Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > How was he released unharmed if he was beaten unconscious? According to the ‘no hostage left behind’ faith-based initiative, that meets the government standard of ‘prayer’. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/27 "2008-12-16T02:16:05Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Should we invade, occupy and kill/maim/displace the citizens of every country that flaunts human rights? Should we have gone into Uganda, or Argentina, or China, or any number of other countries? Should we have invaded Rwanda? Would you support invading Darfur? It would be justified, but not wise, since the resources of the U.S. military are (clearly) not unlimited. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/28 "2008-12-16T02:21:52Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Should we invade, occupy and kill/maim/displace the citizens of every country that flaunts human rights? That plan could prove especially awkward lately. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/29 "2008-12-16T02:40:50Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > That plan could prove especially awkward lately. FWIW, I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/30 "2008-12-16T02:58:26Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Yep, there is that. What a great excuse for causing far more deaths and damage and instability than Saddam ever did. Hindsight comes into play here, as it did when Clinton thought the political ramifications of killing Ossama along with a royal family hunting party would be unacceptable. He’d have prevented September 11 and been crucified. My sarcasm aside, or rather perhaps reinforced, I believe George II was to a certain extent reacting to the criticism of George I not “going onto Baghdad” when the directions from the United Nations were to remove the Iraqis from Kuwait. One of the few things I agree with Bush 1st is that was the time to end the First Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193/31 "2008-12-16T04:48:38Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Who knows what the result would have been, but the infrastructure and sectarian violence probably wouldn’t have become so bad as it is now, and the U.S. wouldn’t have had to become involved, spending hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives. The cost of U.S. amputees for the VA is going to be sky-high. I totally disagree. The Shi’ite, likely backed by Iran, would probably have rebelled against any Sunni-dominated government. If the government broke down it’s possible that the Kurds would have declared independence which would have almost certainly involved Turkey. Basically the result would have been Afghanistan circa 1994; that didn’t turn out so well. It was stupid for Bush to order the invasion and plenty of mistakes were made but to compare Bush to Hussein is partisan blindness. Under Hussein Iraqis had no hope of a brighter future. Currently they do, even if one thinks it is unlikely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seriously-though-the-shoe-thrower-had-been-kidnapped-and-tortured/477193.md?page=1)