# Ses pattes arrière(arrières? )..ses pattes avant/(avants) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 4, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688 "2019-09-04T15:11:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/1 "2019-09-04T15:11:55Z")
Hi I’m sure there is a perfectly logical explanation for why I see both ‘pattes arrière/arrières’ and ‘pattes avant/avants’ online. Does it have to do with specificity? I look forward to your feedback. Ses pattes arrière(arrières?) sont beaucoup plus grandes que ses pattes avant/avants??). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/2 "2019-09-04T15:56:24Z")
These are invariable adjectives: les pneus arrière, les pneus avant. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/3 "2019-09-04T16:06:24Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > These are invariable adjectives: les pneus arrière, les pneus avant. Thank you DPRK, but can you tell me why I see the variations online ending in "-s’ as opposed the common ones that don’t end in ‘s’ the plural? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/4 "2019-09-04T17:01:02Z")
Possible spelling mistake? Could you quote an example of such a usage? “Avants” could also refer to rugby or football positions. OTOH, the plural of “avant-garde” is “avant-gardes”. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/5 "2019-09-04T17:09:23Z")
It’s a common “erreur d’orthographe” (spelling/writing mistake) I’d wager. French is my second language, and it feels to me like “arrière” and “avant” should take an s to conjugate with the plural “pattes”, but it doesn’t because as \*\*DPRK \*\*mentioned, they’re invariable adjectives. You would conjugate most adjectives in that situation (for example, “une patte rouge/des pattes rouges”). ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/6 "2019-09-05T00:47:31Z")
En englais, por favor? I haven’t had French since 1987 and I’m a bit rusty. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/7 "2019-09-05T01:41:49Z")
Front paws and back paws ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/8 "2019-09-05T02:36:01Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > These are invariable adjectives: les pneus arrière, les pneus avant. Thanks you DPRK. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/9 "2019-09-05T17:43:28Z")
_arrière_ and _avant_ can be: adverbs or invariable adjectives as in _pneus arrière, pneus avant_ or adjectives as in _arrières pensées_ (back thinking), _arrières grands-parents_ (great grand parents) nouns, as in _l’arrière de la voiture_ (the back of the car), usually in the singular since things generally have one _arrière_. I know of only one case when _les arrières_ is used; it then means the backs (of the troops, of the players). So it all depends on usage. It’s a really peculiar case in the French language, and I understand the hesitations of non-francophones. ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ses-pattes-arriere-arrieres-ses-pattes-avant-avants/839688/10 "2019-09-05T22:43:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Front paws and back paws Ah. Thank you.