# SETI logically proves advanced intersteller civilizations **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369 "2014-03-10T18:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/21 "2014-03-10T22:40:20Z")
I think arguments like this come down to the relationship of two variables: #1. Just how likely/unlikely is abiogenesis. #2. Just how infinite is the universe. If the universe were truly, truly infinite and abiogenesis IS naturally-occurring at all, then other life must occur. But the universe isn’t infinite, it’s just _enormous_. And abiogenesis is something we really just don’t have a lot of knowledge of at this time. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/22 "2014-03-10T22:53:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Invoking god in that doesn’t really make sense to me. Life seems to just be a collection of self sustaining chemical reactions. Well, there’s a helluva lot more to our biology than mere chemistry. Language, for example. Also, recent research has discovered that **[neural patterns in the brain](http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/health-and-human-body/human-body/mind-brain/)** may play as great a role as the neurons themselves, though science has barely scratched the surface on that. But yes, I agree that “God” needs to remain far away from debate, if only to avoid any presumptions or misunderstandings on who or what “God” really is. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/23 "2014-03-10T23:12:53Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > I think arguments like this come down to the relationship of two variables: > > #1. Just how likely/unlikely is abiogenesis. > … or #1a Just how likely/unlikely is panspermia? (as which point the unlikelihood of abiogenesis is irreverent because we are here and it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_Raygun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c67d28/32.png) [@Ronald\_Raygun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_Raygun)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/24 "2014-03-10T23:15:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > 2- The earth/solar system/sun is not unique, but common and made of common material. Since life happened here, we have to take that life happened elsewhere as well. I’m not willing to grant you this. I recall seeing a very vivid illustration of the point I’m going to make which involved an array of lightbulbs. Each lightbulb represented a region of space; a lit lightbulb indicated that that particular region contained an “advanced interstellar civilization”. The lifetime of a civilization can be represented by a bulb turning on (birth), then after some time has elapsed, turning off (extinction). It could be the case that the emergence of intelligent life is so rare that, on average, only one lightbulb is lit at any given time. We may go extinct before another civilization emerges. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/25 "2014-03-10T23:29:50Z")
> [@Ronald\_Raygun](#): > > I’m not willing to grant you this. I recall seeing a very vivid illustration of the point I’m going to make which involved an array of lightbulbs. Each lightbulb represented a region of space; a lit lightbulb indicated that that particular region contained an “advanced interstellar civilization”. The lifetime of a civilization can be represented by a bulb turning on (birth), then after some time has elapsed, turning off (extinction). > > It could be the case that the emergence of intelligent life is so rare that, on average, only one lightbulb is lit at any given time. We may go extinct before another civilization emerges. I see your point, but your point actually reinforces, as opposed to counter my #2: > [@](#): > > 2- The earth/solar system/sun is not unique, but common and made of common material. Since life happened here, we have to take that life happened elsewhere as well. You are just saying it just does not last, which is a valid counter, but does not negate #2. But your argumet means a planet bound civilization, so no need for FTL communications, so we should be getting radio signals from them as they don’t need to transition to a faster means of communication. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/26 "2014-03-10T23:44:59Z")
Looking through this it seems that many have a issue with #2: > [@](#): > > 2- The earth/solar system/sun is not unique, but common and made of common material. Since life happened here, we have to take that life happened elsewhere as well. So tear it apart: Is there any reason to assume that the earth is unique? etc… But I do think it boils down to that? And it also invokes the emotional argument if we are special or not. And if we should consider ourselves special, is their a logical basis for doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/27 "2014-03-11T00:01:26Z")
It’s quite possible Terra is not unique; but '_Since life happened here, we have to take that life happened elsewhere as well.’_ is pure faith. There’s no reason to assume one happening presupposes the same outcome. [QUOTE=Senegoid] …with each surviving god being awarded some piece of the Universe to play with [/quote] Those would be demiurges, then. The Cathars, the Mormons of their day, believed the God of this world was a mere demiurge. [QUOTE=Shodan] FWIW I think we are unlikely to wipe ourselves out as a species. [/QUOTE] Providing some halfwit doesn’t combine Ebola with the common cold, _natürlich_. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/28 "2014-03-11T00:12:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > 1 - SETI has not found intersteller communications looking at the EM spectrum. True. > [@](#): > > 2- The earth/solar system/sun is not unique, but common and made of common material. Probably true. We don’t actually have a good handle on what conditions are like in the most remote parts of the universe. We assume that conditions are even all over, but that’s just an assumption. > [@](#): > > Since life happened here, we have to take that life happened elsewhere as well. 😕 The man living next door to me is not unique in my suburb. He works a common job, has a wife and 2.5 kids etc. He won the lottery. Therefore someone else in my suburb must also have won the lottery. Err. No. That’s not a logical inference at all. Something that is vanishingly uncommon is almost certain to have happened only once. It doesn’t matter how “typical” the subject was. > [@](#): > > Evolution will eventually tend towards intelligent beings due to the advantage of using resources as tools. 😕 You don’t need intelligence to use tools. Termites and ants use tools perfectly well. Using tools intelligently requires intelligence, but it is also a product of intelligence. IOW you need to already be intelligent to use tools intelligently. It doesn’t matter what the advantage of using tools it, it can’t drive the evolution of intelligence. > [@](#): > > 4 - Using 2+3 we get that there are many intelligent extraterrestrial beings. And adding 2+3 we have somehow managed to get 7 > [@](#): > > 5 Our Solar System is a newcomer to the galactic party, so plenty of time for more advanced civilizations to have evolved. How do you know the average time it takes for advanced civilisation to develop? And if you don’t know that, then how can you say there has been plenty of time? It took 4 billion years for intelligent life to develop here. If the average time required is 400 billion years, then in what sense has there been plenty of time for time for more advanced civilizations to have evolved. > [@](#): > > 6 4+5 is there are many advanced beings in all states of their ‘technological evolution’ And again 4 + 5 = pi/2. > [@](#): > > 7 Electromagnetic communications is sufficient for planetary communications but not practical for interstellar communications. Can you explain the logic in this? Staining crushed grass with ground up rocks was practical for intercontinental communications for thousands of years. Why would the radio be impractical for interstellar communications? > [@](#): > > 8 Since we established that advanced extraterrestrial beings exist and are prevalent in the galaxy We established that by adding a non-sequitur to a Gambler’s Fallacy and multiplying it by a Slothful Induction. So not really convincing. > [@](#): > > we must assume they are not using EM methods of communication Why must we assume this? > [@](#): > > and have found something better And even if we accept all the preceding, why must we accept this? Did the existence of a trans-continental civilisation in 1700 mean that we have to assume they had found something better than using letters? > [@](#): > > …but the only reason for doing so is the need (technological evolutionary pressure) for interstellar communications WTF? You are now arguing that if humans could invent true instantaneous communication technology, we wouldn’t bother because we don’t have interstellar travel. That’s just silly. The ability to instantly transmit data from drones, for game play, just for plain old data transfer would be so massively advantageous that whoever invented such a thing would be a billionaire within a week. Can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that there is no need to invent FTL communications if you don’t have interstellar travel. > [@](#): > > therefor interstellar civilizations are a reality and common. > > Yes I skipped a few steps, particularly between 7-8, but that’s the basic gist of it. You haven’t just skipped a few steps. Every step after point one seems like [[Insane Troll Logic - TV Tropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic)]insane troll logic.]( [url) The Earth is made of common material, therefore those materials must commonly produce life, therefore life must be common, and since life needs to be intelligent to use tools, and tool use is useful, therefore life must have evolved intelligence commonly so it could make use of tools. And since intelligence is common and we haven’t found a shred of evidence for it, that proves that the evidence\* must be invisible\*!!! The only way the evidence could be invisible is if the space men used some form of instantaneous communication. And since nobody could conceivably want instantaneous communications tech unless they can fly through space, that proves that the space men must have learned to fly through space, commonly. And since space men have learned to fly through space commonly, but we haven’t found any evidence, that just proves that all the evidence is invisible. Don’t you see. My utter absence of evidence is positive proof!!! And that’s not a parody. That’s the actual argument being presented. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/29 "2014-03-11T00:18:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Is there any reason to assume that the earth is unique? No. > [@](#): > > etc… What? How is this “tearing it apart? There is no reason to assume the Earth is unique, therefore life must be common” isn’t tearing your argument apart. It’s just restating the same non sequitur. > [@](#): > > But I do think it boils down to that? Is that a question or a statement? > [@](#): > > And it also invokes the emotional argument if we are special or not. What argument? How is it invoked? > [@](#): > > And if we should consider ourselves special, is their a logical basis for doing so? There is obviously a logical reason to consider ourselves special : because we are. We are the sole member of our genus. Unless you are positing that the universe is populated by lots and lots of intelligences that all coincidentally evolved to be exactly like us, physically, genetically and mentally, then we obviously are unique. Are you seriously arguing that there are other planets populated by _Homo sapiens_? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/30 "2014-03-11T00:24:17Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > I don’t think there is much, or maybe any, evidence that this is true at all. Sure, humans developed intelligence and it has gave us a definite advantage over other competing species and allowed us to spread into every ecological niche in a very short amount of time, but it is unclear whether this will be advantageous in the _long term_. Hell, I could even argue that evolution did a better job with horseshoe crabs, a species that has been successful and basically unchanged for 450 million years, than it has done with us. There’s a surprisingly solid argument to be made that we humans are simply the artificial mobile homes for E. coli bacteria. No matter how clever we think we are, we’re simply providing more and more cushy living space for our single-celled overlords. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/31 "2014-03-11T00:40:19Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > It may be, instead, that all the gods had a big pow-wow (or a big battle royale), the result of which was a partitioning of the Universe into various spheres of influence, with each surviving god being awarded some piece of the Universe to play with. So the Abrahamic God may only have His Creative Powers in our own local region of the Universe. He’d therefore arguably be a member of – well, an interstellar civilization. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/32 "2014-03-11T00:47:38Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > … > There is obviously a logical reason to consider ourselves special : because we are. We are the sole member of our genus. … Negating your strawman that humans are common in the universe, what makes us unique? We are simply the product of the same evolutionary process that produced the bed bug. Nothing unique in that, we are just one of many. Now if you want to invoke a ‘god’ that created us specially exempt from evolution, yes that would be unique, but that’s not reality or at least not logical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/33 "2014-03-11T00:50:52Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > I think arguments like this come down to the relationship of two variables: > > #1. Just how likely/unlikely is abiogenesis. > #2. Just how infinite is the universe. > > If the universe were truly, truly infinite and abiogenesis IS naturally-occurring at all, then other life must occur. > > But the universe isn’t infinite, it’s just _enormous_. And abiogenesis is something we really just don’t have a lot of knowledge of at this time. How infinite is the galaxy? There’s no way that life in another galaxy (no matter how teeming) could have any affect on life in this galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/34 "2014-03-11T01:21:19Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > How infinite is the galaxy? . . . . It’s actually rather finite. It’s 100,000 light years side to side. It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick–but out by us it’s just 3000 light-years wide. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/35 "2014-03-11T01:26:10Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > It’s quite possible Terra is not unique; but '_Since life happened here, we have to take that life happened elsewhere as well.’_ is pure faith. There’s no reason to assume one happening presupposes the same outcome. That’s like saying if you have a planetary nebula it’s pure faith to assume planets will form, which is contrary to science and physics. You can’t _not_ get planets unless you have a really big and powerful something actively preventing it. If a planet has the conditions and ingredients for life, it’s silly to assume it will just randomly decide not to happen. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/36 "2014-03-11T02:08:28Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The Earth is made of common material, therefore those materials must commonly produce life, therefore life must be common, Sorry, but I must side with **kanicbird** on this point, at least. Merely observing our own planet, we’ve discovered that life is hyper-abundant, including places where prior logic would assume no life could possibly exist – [extremophiles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile) thrive in fumaroles, [tube worms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_worm) exist in the deepest, darkest ocean trenches, etc. Granted, all these lifeforms are very simple and non-intelligent, but such lively abundance compels us to accept the possibility, if not outright assume as fact, that abiogenesis is virtually guaranteed for any location _where conditions exist for life to appear._ > [@Blake](#): > > And since intelligence is common and we haven’t found a shred of evidence for it, that proves that the evidence\* must be invisible\*!!! The only way the evidence could be invisible is if the space men used some form of instantaneous communication. And since nobody could conceivably want instantaneous communications tech unless they can fly through space, that proves that the space men must have learned to fly through space, commonly. Well, therein lies the rub. AFAWK, intelligent life has only appeared once, and we’re it. And it’s equally safe to assume that the evolution of sapient intelligence may have indeed been an accident, a lucky draw from the deck. That being said – just because we have yet to detect ANY sign of extraterrestrial intelligence (crop circles & anal probing aside) does not prove or even suggest that no such intelligence exists. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, etc. Oh, and just because it’s freakin’ awesome, I fixed your TVTropes link: [Insane Troll Logic - TV Tropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/37 "2014-03-11T02:24:35Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That’s like saying if you have a planetary nebula it’s pure faith to assume planets will form, which is contrary to science and physics. You can’t _not_ get planets unless you have a really big and powerful something actively preventing it. > > If a planet has the conditions and ingredients for life, it’s silly to assume it will just randomly decide not to happen. One is a logical sequence — ‘_He who says A, must say B_’ — since as you say, the materials are ready, and have to mingle. The other is random chance since life is not **forced** by physics to emerge. Otherwise we may have observed life spontaneously generating. A theory popular in the 18th century, but not so much since. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/38 "2014-03-11T02:30:22Z")
I like to think the universe is full of life, and that we’re nothing special, but I read an interesting viewpoint recently in this [Aeon Magazine article](http://aeon.co/magazine/world-views/ross-andersen-human-extinction/) that makes you think it may be better if we were. > [@](#): > > … > > Robin Hanson, a research associate at the Future of Humanity Institute, says there must be something about the universe, or about life itself, that stops planets from generating galaxy-colonising civilisations. There must be a ‘great filter’, he says, an insurmountable barrier that sits somewhere on the line between dead matter and cosmic transcendence. > > Before coming to Oxford, I had lunch with Hanson in Washington DC. He explained to me that the filter could be any number of things, or a combination of them. It could be that life itself is scarce, or it could be that microbes seldom stumble onto sexual reproduction. Single-celled organisms could be common in the universe, but Cambrian explosions rare. That, or maybe Tsiolkovsky misjudged human destiny. Maybe he underestimated the difficulty of interstellar travel. Or maybe technologically advanced civilisations choose not to expand into the galaxy, or do so invisibly, for reasons we do not yet understand. Or maybe, something more sinister is going on. Maybe quick extinction is the destiny of all intelligent life. > > Humanity has already slipped through a number of these potential filters, but not all of them. Some lie ahead of us in the gauntlet of time. The identity of the filter is less important to Bostrom than its timing, its position in our past or in our future. For if it lies in our future, there could be an extinction risk waiting for us that we cannot anticipate, or to which anticipation makes no difference. There could be an inevitable technological development that renders intelligent life self-annihilating, or some periodic, catastrophic event in nature that empirical science cannot predict. > > That’s why Bostrom hopes the Curiosity rover fails. ‘Any discovery of life that didn’t originate on Earth makes it less likely the great filter is in our past, and more likely it’s in our future,’ he told me. If life is a cosmic fluke, then we’ve already beaten the odds, and our future is undetermined — the galaxy is there for the taking. If we discover that life arises everywhere, we lose a prime suspect in our hunt for the great filter. The more advanced life we find, the worse the implications. If Curiosity spots a vertebrate fossil embedded in Martian rock, it would mean that a Cambrian explosion occurred twice in the same solar system. It would give us reason to suspect that nature is very good at knitting atoms into complex animal life, but very bad at nurturing star-hopping civilisations. It would make it less likely that humans have already slipped through the trap whose jaws keep our skies lifeless. It would be an omen. > > … ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/39 "2014-03-11T02:53:10Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > There’s a surprisingly solid argument to be made that we humans are simply the artificial mobile homes for E. coli bacteria. No matter how clever we think we are, we’re simply providing more and more cushy living space for our single-celled overlords. That is brilliant. The more I learn about the universe, the more I don’t doubt that something like this is true. There is the fungus that takes over ant’s brains to make them climb to the highest place they can to die. And doesn’t that cat disease make people act differently. What’s it called? It would be funny if E. Coli bacteria was making us over imbibe antibiotics to reduce competition and spurn vaccines because they impeded the bacterial lifestyle… Just what we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369/40 "2014-03-11T02:57:00Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > It’s actually rather finite. It’s 100,000 light years side to side. It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick–but out by us it’s just 3000 light-years wide. Personally, I pray that SETI is correct that there is intelligent life out there in our finite galaxy, because there is bugger down here on Earth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seti-logically-proves-advanced-intersteller-civilizations/683369.md?page=3)