# "Setter" in British and/or Indian dialect/slang? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922 "2018-04-06T13:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/1 "2018-04-06T13:35:08Z")
I’ve been doing some British/Cryptic style crosswords on The Hindu, an Indian newspaper site. Some of the clues use the word “setter” in a way I haven’t been able to figure out. It doesn’t seem to correspond to dictionary definitions I’ve seen nor to the typical cryptic crossword associations that I can imagine. Does it have some meaning in British or Indian usage that wouldn’t be obvious to an American like me? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/2 "2018-04-06T13:46:36Z")
A dog, or one who sets crosswords? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/3 "2018-04-06T13:56:14Z")
Can you give an example? A setter could be someone who sets things like crosswords, or a breed of dog, an instrument used in setting (e.g. type-setter), someone who sets up something, a confederate of con-artists, a spy, / informer, and so on. It’s also an alternative spelling of saeter which is a name for a meadow or summer pasture in Orkney and Shetland. I imagine it might be used as such in the Himalayas. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/4 "2018-04-06T14:01:12Z")
In a cryptic it usually means ‘my’ or ‘me’ will be part of the answer, maybe ‘I’. Always exceptions with cryptics, though, with setters liking to defy convention, but that is the standard definition. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/5 "2018-04-06T15:04:31Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > …one who sets crosswords? > [@Quartz](#): > > A setter could be someone who sets things like crosswords… > [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > In a cryptic it usually means ‘my’ or ‘me’ will be part of the answer, maybe ‘I’. Always exceptions with cryptics, though, with setters liking to defy convention, but that is the standard definition. Thanks, it looks like this is indeed it. Apparently the setter is the puzzle solver, hence “me” etc. I assume “sets a crossword” is analogous to “sits a test,” which is why it didn’t come to me (we Yanks don’t sit a test, we take a test, and we solve a crossword :)). Here are some examples: Setter, seated bemusedly, thinks (7) — Ideates Setter about to win round rare ring at bar (7) — Embargo Permit setter to jump into poisonous nettle (7) — Entitle ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/6 "2018-04-06T15:13:16Z")
You’ve got it backwards. To “set” a crossword is to create one. Those clues shouldn’t be read from your perspective, but from the perspective of the person writing the clues. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/7 "2018-04-06T15:41:02Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > You’ve got it backwards. To “set” a crossword is to create one. Those clues shouldn’t be read from your perspective, but from the perspective of the person writing the clues. I see. Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/8 "2018-04-06T16:42:33Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Apparently the setter is the puzzle solver, hence “me” etc. I assume “sets a crossword” is analogous to “sits a test,” which is why it didn’t come to me (we Yanks don’t sit a test, we take a test, and we solve a crossword :)). You almost had the analogy right, though. _Setting_ a test is what a teacher/professor does. In British and Indian idiom, as in American, tests are _taken_, though you might _sit for_ a test. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/9 "2018-04-06T17:46:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You almost had the analogy right, though. _Setting_ a test is what a teacher/professor does. In British and Indian idiom, as in American, tests are _taken_, though you might _sit for_ a test. Got it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/10 "2018-04-06T23:07:19Z")
In parts of rural America (hunting country), _setter_ is sometimes used to designate the womens’ restroom. As opposed to _pointer_, which is the matching designation on the mens’ restroom. Often accompanied with silhouette drawings of the appropriate dogs ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/11 "2018-04-07T01:39:50Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Setter, seated bemusedly, thinks (7) — Ideates > > Setter about to win round rare ring at bar (7) — Embargo > > Permit setter to jump into poisonous nettle (7) — Entitle Those clues are so convoluted I’m having trouble figuring them out even WITH the solutions. Which part of the ‘embargo’ clue corresponds to the actual concept of embargoing something? Or tells you that ‘me’ is to be spelt backwards? In fact, the only bit of that clue I can make any sense of is the bar. Why is the nettle in the last clue poisonous? What does that add to the clue? (Disclaimer: I never do cryptics 'cos I hate 'em. But at least I can usually see AFTER the fact why the clues were as they were) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/12 "2018-04-07T02:22:57Z")
_Setter, seated bemusedly, thinks (7) — Ideates_ setter = **I** seated bemusedly (i.e., rearranged) = **deates** **I + deates \> Ideates** = thinks _Setter about to win round rare ring at bar (7) — Embargo_ setter about (i.e., turned about or turned around) = **em** to win = grab (there are certain things you win by grabbing them), round (turned around) = **barg** ring = **o** **em + barg + o \> embargo** = bar (not sure what “rare” means in the clue) _Permit setter to jump into poisonous nettle (7) — Entitle_ setter = **I** poisonous means rearranged (yeah, they take a lot of liberty), in this case nettle to **enttle** **i** jumping into (i.e. inserted into) **enttle \> entitle** = permit ETA: Often the biggest challenge with cryptic clues is figuring out the function of each word or phrase. For example, in that last one is the meaning of the answer “permit” or is the meaning “nettle?” With most clues it’s far from obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/13 "2018-04-07T05:42:39Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > In a cryptic it usually means ‘my’ or ‘me’ will be part of the answer, maybe ‘I’. Always exceptions with cryptics, though, with setters liking to defy convention, but that is the standard definition. I’d say it’s usually something related to the setter’s name, or nom-de-plume. For example, in a crossword set by “Smith” there might be a clue \*Setter’s creation \* to which the answer might be _horseshoe_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/14 "2018-04-07T13:07:43Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > _Setter, seated bemusedly, thinks (7) — Ideates_ > > setter = **I** > seated bemusedly (i.e., rearranged) = **deates** > **I + deates \> Ideates** = thinks > _Setter about to win round rare ring at bar (7) — Embargo_ > > setter about (i.e., turned about or turned around) = **em** > to win = grab (there are certain things you win by grabbing them), round (turned around) = **barg** > ring = **o** > **em + barg + o \> embargo** = bar (not sure what “rare” means in the clue) > _Permit setter to jump into poisonous nettle (7) — Entitle_ > > setter = **I** > poisonous means rearranged (yeah, they take a lot of liberty), in this case nettle to **enttle** > **i** jumping into (i.e. inserted into) **enttle \> entitle** = permit > > ETA: Often the biggest challenge with cryptic clues is figuring out the function of each word or phrase. For example, in that last one is the meaning of the answer “permit” or is the meaning “nettle?” With most clues it’s far from obvious. Perfect illustration of why I hate this kind of puzzle. They’re dependent upon your being in on some arbitrary code. It has nothing to do with your knowledge of words or trivia. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/15 "2018-04-07T14:06:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Perfect illustration of why I hate this kind of puzzle. They’re dependent upon your being in on some arbitrary code. It has nothing to do with your knowledge of words or trivia. While I agree with that, the same complaint holds for American crosswords as well. There is a code, a language that one typically needs to understand going into them. it’s not as…well, cryptic, but it’s there. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/16 "2018-04-07T15:27:23Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > You’ve got it backwards. To “set” a crossword is to create one. Those clues shouldn’t be read from your perspective, but from the perspective of the person writing the clues. Sit an exam, set a puzzle. From Anglo-Saxon grammar, _set_ is the causative form of _sit_, meaning to make someone or something sit. Similar to cling/clench, drink/drench, lie/lay, rise/raise - see the pattern? An internal vowel change. Modern English can’t produce causative verbs in this way any more, but we have several inherited from Old English. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/17 "2018-04-07T15:36:44Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > _Setter about to win round rare ring at bar (7) — Embargo_ > > setter about (i.e., turned about or turned around) = **em** > to win = grab (there are certain things you win by grabbing them), round (turned around) = **barg** > ring = **o** > **em + barg + o \> embargo** = bar (not sure what “rare” means in the clue) I think for the middle part it’s bag = win, around r = rare ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/18 "2018-04-07T16:23:52Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think for the middle part it’s > > bag = win, around r = rare That makes sense. I think you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/19 "2018-04-09T20:43:50Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > In parts of rural America (hunting country), _setter_ is sometimes used to designate the womens’ restroom. As opposed to _pointer_, which is the matching designation on the mens’ restroom. Often accompanied with silhouette drawings of the appropriate dogs Neat. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922/20 "2018-04-09T21:31:52Z")
> [@andros](#): > > While I agree with that, the same complaint holds for American crosswords as well. There is a code, a language that one typically needs to understand going into them. it’s not as…well, cryptic, but it’s there. Yeah, there’s some “rules” as to what are fair clues and what are not, but the only real code I could think of is that a question mark denotes some sort of word play, and that’s about it. American crosswords are generally pretty straightforward affairs, with the only “trick” being to remember that words have multiple meanings. And, in poorly constructed puzzles, maybe being familiar with “crosswordese.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setter-in-british-and-or-indian-dialect-slang/811922.md?page=2)