# Setting an ugly president... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889 "2003-01-20T23:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/41 "2003-01-21T21:51:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > **Johnson – warmongerer** What is a “warmongerer”? I know what is “fishmonger” is so I suppose I would know what a “warmonger” might be. They both “mong” their stuff? But what is a warmongerer? What does it mean to “monger”? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/42 "2003-01-21T22:00:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*You have a point, **C K Dexter Haven**. It doesn’t apply to Reagan, though. “\*Won cold war, reduced government, fixed economy” \* is 7 words, not 6, but it’s a pretty good list, at least on the surface. His problem is that he’s such a polarizing figure – too conservative for some liberal historians to apreciate. > \*\* But “Iran Contra, employed astrologer, James Watt” is 6. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/43 "2003-01-21T22:01:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*It’s not that these people were blameless. It’s the question of how history remembers them. If you have to sum up a President in half a dozen words, or for one thing, how do you sum them up? You don’t say that “cheating on his wife” was the most memorable thing FDR did; you say the New Deal or winning WWII. You don’t say Jefferson was a “slave owner”, you say that he wrote much of the Consitution and Bill of Rights, or that he made the Lousiana Purchase. > > What do you say about Richard Nixon? That he was a crook. > What do you say about Carter? That he was ineffectual. > What do you say about Clinton? That he was impeached for sexual impropriety. > What do you say about Ford? That he couldn’t walk (or fart) and chew gum at the same time. > That’s the summation provided by Dame History, not just me. > > We’ve got us a buncha losers. \*\* Sigh…yes they were flawed men that made serious mistakes but that did not necessarily make them wholly ineffective Presidents. For the US to progress there are a lot of gambles to be taken and thorny problems to be addressed. Maybe their major policy initiatives had serious mistakes in the 20/20 lens of historical hindsight, but they were serious and concrete attempts to address serious problems. They were not buffoons or “losers”. Re Nixon and Johnson - [Nixon accomplishments](http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=65000737) 1: Got us (messily) out of Vietnam and it would have been difficult in real world terms to do it any other way than “messy”. 2: “Also during his Presidency, Nixon sought to bring the cold war to an end and improve foreign relations. Meeting with several different communist countries, he became the first US President to visit China since it’s morph to Communist rule. Nixon also visited to the Soviet Union where he also became the first US President to enter the Kremlin. Here, Nixon encouraged the USSR to reduce the production of nuclear arms, and a treaty was signed.” [Some even go further > [@](#): > > As Joan Hoff has observed in her book, “Nixon Reconsidered,” Nixon “exceeded the accomplishments of the New Deal and the Great Society in the area of civil rights, social welfare spending, domestic and international economic restructuring, urban parks, government reorganization, land-use initiatives, revenue sharing, draft reform, pension reform, and spending for the arts and humanities.” [Johnson’s Accomplishments](http://obits.com/lbj.html) > [@](#): > > Johnson made a personal mission of pushing Kennedy’s Civil Rights legislation through Congress, prodding representatives with the statement that “No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor President Kennedy’s memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil rights bill.” In February 1964, bolstered by a number of strengthening amendments, the bill was passed. > > That same year Johnson passed into law The Civil Rights Act, prohibiting racial and sexual discrimination, segregation, and guaranteeing equal voting rights. With a vision of a “Great Society” in which poverty and injustice would be eliminated, > > Johnson embarked on the most expansive social reforms since the “New Deal” he had supported in the 1930s. The “Great Society” plan, beginning with the Civil Rights Act included the establishment of the Job Corps, Head Start preschool education program, the Voting Rights Act and the establishment of Medicare and Medicaid programs for the elderly and poor. Additional legislation promoted education, housing, urban development, public transportation, environmental conservation and new immigration laws. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/44 "2003-01-22T00:18:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > **\<\<_snip_\>\>You don’t say Jefferson was a “slave owner”, you say that he wrote much of the Consitution and Bill of Rights…\<\<_snip_\>\>** While it is common today to give Thomas Jefferson credit above and beyond his actual contributions to creation and governance of the fledgling republic, please bear in mind that he did not, in fact, write either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, largely due to his presence some thousands of miles away in France during the period in question. That he corresponded with James Madison, typically referred to as the foremost of the framers of the Constitution, should not result in a superposition in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/45 "2003-01-22T02:34:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FisherQueen \* > \*\*I want a ‘none of the above’ box on the ballot. Other countries get ‘none of the above’ boxes… \*\* It’s a waste of ink. If you don’t like 'em, don’t vote for 'em. Or for anybody, for that matter. The notion that everyone MUST vote in every election is a weird one, especially given the reasons why some people pick a candidate (like hairstyle or TV presence). ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/46 "2003-01-22T02:49:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth Kalashnikov: > I have often wondered about all presidential candidates - is this really the best we can do? It reminds me of what P.J. O’Rourke wrote in _Parliament of Whores_ about the 1988 election: “America is the richest and most powerful nation on earth, with more than a quarter billion native citizens and any number of household pets from which to pick our head of state…and yet…we found ourselves forced to choose among…Babbit, Biden, Bush, Dole, Dukakis, DuPont, Gephardt, Gore, Haig, Hart, Jackson, Kemp, Robertson, Simon and Lyndon LaRouche.” The scariest thing to me, personally, is that, lame as that list was, you could probably take the leading candidates from any of the last six or so elections and get an equally lame grouping. I think it’s pretty sad that you could come up with a better list of politicians (Daschle, Powell and McCain come immediately to mind) that have no desire to run or no chance in hell of being elected, than will actually run in 2004 or 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/47 "2003-01-22T04:26:37Z")
\*\*Sailor \*\* Just for you: [quote] Main Entry: 1mon·ger Pronunciation: 'm&[ng]-g&r, 'mä[ng]- Function: noun Etymology: Middle English mongere, from Old English mangere, from Latin mangon-, mango, of Greek origin; akin to Greek manganon charm, philter Date: before 12th century \*\*1 : BROKER, DEALER – usually used in combination \ 2 : a person who attempts to stir up or spread something that is usually petty or discreditable – usually used in combination \ \*\* Main Entry: 2monger Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): mon·gered; mon·ger·ing /-g(&-)ri[ng]/ Date: circa 1864 :\*\* PEDDLE \*\* Great question! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/48 "2003-01-22T04:28:56Z")
Back to the OP: I cannot imagine my grandparents smiting the retards in office nearly as much, or at all, compared to the daily brick throwing I want to do at the tv screen. Maybe instant information isn’t all it is cracked up to be. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/49 "2003-01-22T04:38:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*Well, dammit, we _could’ve_ had a choice of Bill Bradley or John McCain. I think I could’ve lived with either one a lot happier than either of the actual candidates. > > Maybe we need to disrupt the means by which the major parties choose their candidates? \*\* I have long been an advocate for doing away with the direct election of Senators, it would force politics to become more local, and undermine the power of the two main parties…but then, no one asks me… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/50 "2003-01-22T21:32:14Z")
Huh? Election of senators by the state legislators would mean that the power of the parties would be vastly increased! You vote for your candidates for the state races, and then the party hacks tell them who to vote for in the national race. Directly elected Senators at least have to appeal to, you know, the people. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/51 "2003-01-22T21:40:41Z")
I’m a people. And they don’t appeal to me! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/52 "2003-01-22T22:17:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > \*\*Huh? Election of senators by the state legislators would mean that the power of the parties would be vastly increased! You vote for your candidates for the state races, and then the party hacks tell them who to vote for in the national race. Directly elected Senators at least have to appeal to, you know, the people. \*\* Well, I disagree. I think that the more attention that is focused on local elections the better. Returning the power to elect senators to the states would put a renewed focus on the importance of state representatives, and decrease the power of the national parties who currently raise so much of the money for senators running in stae wide elections. Much harder for the party to controll 100 state reps than to control a single senator. Just my $.02. If anyone wants to discuss this further, perhaps we could open a GD thread on it. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889/53 "2003-01-23T06:43:30Z")
What a brilliant thread title! For one second I thought it was a typo, then I got it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-an-ugly-president/149889.md?page=2)