# Setting up fire extinguisher training... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 7, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041 "2012-03-07T16:33:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/21 "2012-03-08T15:11:48Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > I presume you already have a contract with someone to inspect, maintain, and test your extinguishers. They would also make sure the number and placement of extinguishers meets OSHA standards. Why wouldn’t you have them do the training as part of their contract? > > Just curious… how much could it possibly cost for the training? The primary reason for outsourcing this is the liability issue. Are we talking thousand of dollars? I work for just such a company. We charge $10.00 a person for training. Our trainer goes to our clients and conducts hands on training for our customers. Each attendee is given the chance to actually use an extinguisher to put out a test fire. The fee covers the cost of the guy’s time and the cost of recharging the fire extinguishers used. Our trainer is pretty busy through the warm months. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/22 "2012-03-08T15:16:30Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Or make training available to whoever wants to sign up for it. They’re going to be the folks most likely to grab an extinguisher in the case of an actual fire. > > First rule of extinguisher training. Light the training fire outside. No no no, the first rule of extinguisher training is that you do not talk about extinguisher training. Anyway… Are there any laws or such that regulate the actual delivery of training? Do trainees who have gone through “proper” training by authorized (how?) Fire Extinguisher Usage Instructors get a “Certified Fire Extinguisher User” qualification? ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/23 "2012-03-08T15:16:37Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > San Jose Ca it three floors. Fire floor floor above and floor below. San Francisco it is 4 floors. The fire alarm systems I program for high rise sends an evacuation message to the fire floor, the one above it and the one below it telling them to leave the building and not to use the elevators. All other floors receive an alert message to make them aware that there is an emergency in the building and to stand by for instructions ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/24 "2012-03-08T17:16:10Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > The fire alarm systems I program for high rise sends an evacuation message to the fire floor, the one above it and the one below it telling them to leave the building and not to use the elevators. All other floors receive an alert message to make them aware that there is an emergency in the building and to stand by for instructions That may be regional or city codes.. I know in Jersey City NJ it was 2 floors above and below the fire floor that got sent the Evac message. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/25 "2012-03-08T18:27:44Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > That may be regional or city codes.. I know in Jersey City NJ it was 2 floors above and below the fire floor that got sent the Evac message. I am sure this variation is depending on which version of the code has been adopted by your State Fire Marshal. We are still working from NFPA 72 2002 while they are discussing adopting 2010. My boilerplate code for this is: [GENERAL ALARM] ALARM ‘MSB\ __\___ LVL_\_\*’ : On Visible 'MSB\_LVL __STROBE__ ’ , MSGON ‘Default\_Evac\_01\_08’ FROM ‘3-ASU4’ TO ‘Ch\_Evac\_01\_08’ , MSGON ‘Default\_Alert\_01\_08’ FROM ‘3-ASU4’ TO ‘Ch\_Alert\_01\_08’ , AMPON ‘EVAC\_CIRCUIT’ TO ‘Ch\_Evac\_01\_08’ , AMPON ‘ALERT\_CIRCUIT’ TO ‘Ch\_Alert\_01\_08’ , On Audible 'MSB\_SPKR\_CKT __LVL__ ’ , On Audible 'MSB\_AMP __LVL__ Alert_’ , On Audible 'MSB\_AMP\__LVL\Evac’ , On Audible 'MSB\_AMP\___LVL_\ , On Audible ‘MSB\_AMP\__LVL\ , On Fancontrol ‘MSB\_HVAC\_Control\_Relay\_007\_’ , dly 5 , On 'MSB\_Door\_Control\_Relay\__’ ; ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/26 "2012-03-09T02:18:12Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > The fire alarm systems I program for high rise sends an evacuation message to the fire floor, the one above it and the one below it telling them to leave the building and not to use the elevators. All other floors receive an alert message to make them aware that there is an emergency in the building and to stand by for instructions In San Jose Our buildings are programed for the three floors like you discribed, but we have to make the anouncements to the other floors. Our panels are new EST. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/27 "2012-03-09T02:25:45Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > That may be regional or city codes.. I know in Jersey City NJ it was 2 floors above and below the fire floor that got sent the Evac message. In SF on floors above the 7th floor do not evacuate, they relocate down four floors, and it is 4 floors that are relocating. It does depend on the cityl and the fire department. San Jose the limit I believe is 24 stories. In an alarm situation the 3 floors will be completely evacuated and out of the building before the FD gets there. In SF some are around 100 stories, people would still be in the stairwells as the firemen staarted up if they were to evacuate rather than relocate. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/28 "2012-03-09T04:24:18Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > In San Jose Our buildings are programed for the three floors like you discribed, but we have to make the anouncements to the other floors. Our panels are new EST. The code in my last post was from an EST-3 installation I am installing in a medical clinic building in a large hospital complex. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/29 "2012-03-09T10:26:35Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > The code in my last post was from an EST-3 installation I am installing in a medical clinic building in a large hospital complex. I like the Edwards (EST) better than the Siemens panels we have in our current bldg. SO much easier to use/operate. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/30 "2012-03-09T23:00:50Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > I like the Edwards (EST) better than the Siemens panels we have in our current bldg. SO much easier to use/operate. I agree. I have been installing fire alarms for 33 years. The EST 3 is the best. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/31 "2012-03-10T05:44:30Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > The code in my last post was from an EST-3 installation I am installing in a medical clinic building in a large hospital complex. Both of our buildings have EST panels in then. Normally they are a great panel. Our problem is that it is a replacement panel. We have the origional zone smoke detectors. a second generation smoke detector, the ones with dials on the back to address the detector. And the new fully programable detectors. We are running from 20 to 60 troubles each day. No one can cone up with a definate reason or solution except change all detectors to the new style. The owners are way over budget on what they have put into the building. Side bar story. In a building that I worked at one day we got an alarm. Checked the system found the smoke detector tht was in alarm, determined a faulty smoke detector. I call the management office and informed them that it was not a good alarm. I said “there is no problem it is a faulty smoke.” The fire department called to check the status. The office told them “it is a false alarm, our engineers only see smoke.” Three alarms later and one pissed off fire captian. Now I never a detector a “smoke” it now always smoke detector or detector. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041/32 "2012-03-13T13:28:40Z")
The following seems confusing to me: 1910.157(g)(1) (g) Training and education. (1) Where the employer has provided portable fire extinguishers for employee use in the workplace, the employer shall also provide an educational program to familiarize employees with the general principles of fire extinguisher use and the hazards involved with incipient stage fire fighting. 1910.157(g)(2) (2) The employer shall provide the education required in paragraph (g)(1) of this section upon initial employment and at least annually thereafter. 1910.157(g)(3) (3) The employer shall provide employees who have been designated to use fire fighting equipment as part of an emergency action plan with training in the use of the appropriate equipment. In (g)1 it sounds like the law says that if there are fire extinguishers presnet in the work place then the employer has to provide training on their use to everyone. In my workplace there is a extinguisher in every room. In (g)2 it it says that the employer has to do this annually. However, in (g)3 it says that the employer designates certain key employees to use them. Is this a loop hole to avoid the expense of training everyone? Seems odd to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/setting-up-fire-extinguisher-training/615041.md?page=1)