# Settings with tall Elves **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091 "2003-02-24T04:25:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/1 "2003-02-24T04:25:57Z")
If there’s one thing that irks me about the D&D game systems, it’s 4.5 foot tall Elves. I got into fantasy by reading Tolkien, so I think of Elves as standing taller than humans. In any case, I asked my DM for tall Elves, but he wants some justification for it. Basically, if I can show him non-Tolkien examples (he says only Tolkien had tall elves) of settings (mostly in literature, I’m assuming) with Elves taller than humans, I can have tall Elves in our upcoming campaign. So, any ideas? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/2 "2003-02-24T04:27:32Z")
Tell your DM he’s being a stupid git and beat about the head and shoulders until he agrees to give you tall elves. He want’s justification for it . . . what a dork. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/3 "2003-02-24T04:31:33Z")
Dork, shmork. Are Santa’s elves 6 ft tall? I think not! ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/4 "2003-02-24T04:37:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > \*\*Dork, shmork. Are Santa’s elves 6 ft tall? I think not! \*\* Some of them are pretty close, though of course it all depends on the interpretation. In some they’re immortal children, in some they’re midgets with pointy ears, in others regular sized people with pointy ears. And anyway, Santa’s Elves bear little resemblance to the elves of Tolkien-esque fantasy, which brings up an interesting point, since Tolkien is such a huge influence of modern fantasy, then if Tolkien’s elves are tall, why are most other elves is modern fantasy, such as the ones in D&D, shorter than humans? I guess in some areas, Santa’s influence is stronger than Tolkien’s. ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/5 "2003-02-24T04:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fibber McGee \* > \*\*Tell your DM he’s being a stupid git and beat about the head and shoulders until he agrees to give you tall elves. > > He want’s justification for it . . . what a dork. \*\* Whole-hearted agreement on his git-ness in this case, especially since I’m not the only one in the group who thinks that these miniature Keebler Elf goobers are utterly silly. I’d just demand tall Elves outright, but he’s a stickler for the whole “DM’s word is law” thing, so it wouldn’t get me very far. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/6 "2003-02-24T04:49:30Z")
Nancy Springer’s fantasy series set in Isle has tall elves. _The Silver Sun_ and _The Sable Moon_ are the two books in that series that have the most elves in them. ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/7 "2003-02-24T04:53:47Z")
And of course Vulcans are essentially tall elves, only because Trek is Sci-Fi they’re good at science instead of magic. ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/8 "2003-02-24T04:54:47Z")
Settings with tall elves? AD&D’s Dark Sun[sup][tm][/sup] campaign setting, but I don’t belive there’s been any 3e material published in that setting. Shadowrun, formerly of FASA, now of WizKids/Fanpro, also had tall elves. It’s not just a Tolkein thing. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/9 "2003-02-24T04:57:52Z")
Elizabeth Moon’s “The Deeds of Paksenarrion” has human-height or greater elves. StG ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/10 "2003-02-24T05:00:22Z")
I think that there are a fair number of fantasy novels out there that feature tall elves. I’d say it’s a safe bet that they all cribbed the idea from Tolkien, but they should still count. Joel Rosenberg’s \*\*Guardians of the Flame \*\*series and Raymond E. Feist’s **Riftwar** books are other examples. However, it’s worth pointing out that Tolkien himself took the idea of tall elves from Norse mythology. The elves of Scandinavian folklore are basically identical to humans, except more noble in appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/11 "2003-02-24T05:01:01Z")
I just found another one, looking through my bookshelves. Don Callander’s Dragon Companion series has human-height elves. ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/12 "2003-02-24T05:03:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Catalyst \* > \*\*Whole-hearted agreement on his git-ness in this case, especially since I’m not the only one in the group who thinks that these miniature Keebler Elf goobers are utterly silly. I’d just demand tall Elves outright, but he’s a stickler for the whole “DM’s word is law” thing, so it wouldn’t get me very far. \*\* Well, I guess I was lucky in my D&D experiences that our DM wasn’t such a hard-ass stickler for rules. We had great fun, and I’ve occasionally thought of chronicling our adventures as a novel or series of novels. The adventures of the greedy, horny buddhist monk, the Austin Powers of elves, the lesbian half-ogre, the escapred mental patient dwarf who keeps trying to eat his companions’ faces and the cynical druid who hates animals . . . and trees . . . and flowers pretty much suck too. Why did I become a druid again? Oh yeah, to get laid. Then there’s the unfortunate halfling thief. Famous last words: “Trust me, I could disarm this trap with my eyes closed. In fact, that’s exactly what I’ll do!” Coming soon to a bookstore near you. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/13 "2003-02-24T06:07:53Z")
The elves in all the Dragonlance books are tall as well. I think it makes a better balance against the dwarves and humans. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/14 "2003-02-24T07:43:57Z")
Do comic books count? _Poison Elves_ features tall (at least human-sized) elves. _The Books of Faerie_ (DC-Vertigo) features tall elves also. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/15 "2003-02-24T07:49:26Z")
The oldest written mention of elves, the Poetic Edda (compiled circa the mid 1200s and based on older oral traditions) describes elves that are of the same height as humans. The idea that elves should be short seems to be a Victorian concept, one which Tolkien railed against in his essay "On Fairy-Stories. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/16 "2003-02-24T07:51:39Z")
The elves in Rick Cook’s “Wizardry” series are taller than humans. They also live in big holes in the ground (well, no, there’s more to it than that), so you may want to pick and choose there. Weren’t Pratchett’s elves tall also? I’d have to read _Lords and Ladies_ again to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/17 "2003-02-24T08:08:54Z")
According to IMDB, Elvis is 6’. Sounds pretty tall to me. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/18 "2003-02-24T08:37:52Z")
Legend of Zelda. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/19 "2003-02-24T08:44:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BraheSilver \* > \*\*Weren’t Pratchett’s elves tall also? I’d have to read _Lords and Ladies_ again to tell you. \*\* Yes they were. And pretty mean as well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091/20 "2003-02-24T08:46:18Z")
Well the sidhe were thought of as of human height if not taller and they are a strong base for elves. More recently WarCraft III’s night elves are apparently supposed to be tall. Short elves are silly. They are supposed to be regal, elegant and statuesque. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settings-with-tall-elves/157091.md?page=2)