# Settle a debate: In A League of Their Own... \[OPEN SPOILERS IN THREAD\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725 "2011-12-10T12:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/21 "2011-12-10T21:00:55Z")
I think she dropped it on purpose. Dottie was the kind of player who would have had her arm torn off before she’d miss the ball, unless it was her idea to drop it because she loved her sister more than she loved playing and winning (which was A LOT). ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/22 "2011-12-10T21:56:15Z")
> [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](#): > > Yes she did, but the bigger question is why we might need a 19 year old movie spoiler-protected… > > 😉 I didn’t think so either, but the OP of the last topic about it (linked to in my OP) got a lot of crap about it for not spoiling back then. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/23 "2011-12-10T23:22:08Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Waitaminit! That’s not what _I’m_ saying. That is my interpretation of the movie. Dottie dropped the ball so, in the end, there was no a league of their own. According to A League Of Their Own, not according to Biggirl. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the movie say that the league lasted for several years after Dottie stopped playing? That kind of undercuts your interpretation of the movie’s message. I don’t think she dropped the ball on purpose. For one thing, it would be an absolute rat-bastard thing to do to the rest of her team mates. For another, it would communicate that her relationship with her sister was fundamentally unchanged: she’s still patronizing her little sister. “Letting” her win is the sort of thing you do with a five year old, not another grown woman. It’s almost as much of a shit move as backstabbing your team by throwing the game. I think Kit legitimately came out on top in that play. The message I take from it is that, at the end, it was Kit who was the “real” ball player - Dottie had more raw talent, but Kit had the heart for it. Dottie was just killing time until her husband came home. Kit loved the game. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/24 "2011-12-10T23:35:23Z")
I don’t think she dropped it. **Miller** ’s explanation is pretty much exactly how I feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/25 "2011-12-11T01:25:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The message I take from it is that, at the end, it was Kit who was the “real” ball player - Dottie had more raw talent, but Kit had the heart for it. Dottie was just killing time until her husband came home. Kit loved the game. That’s exactly why I think just the opposite. The game was meaningless to Dottie, but meant everything to Kit. So she let go. One of my favorite movies of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/26 "2011-12-11T03:24:07Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > IShe could not have deliberately let down people who had a right to count on her, IMO. Her sister had no right to expect such a thing–again, that would have been out of character. Well, Dottie was willing to get traded or drop out of the league entirely just before the end of the season - that would have also been letting down her teammates. And Kit had no _right_ to _expect_ Dottie to drop it - that’s why when Dottie _did_ drop it, Kit didn’t question it and genuinely believed she had won. > [@Stuffy](#): > > That’s exactly why I think just the opposite. The game was meaningless to Dottie, but meant everything to Kit. So she let go. One of my favorite movies of all time. I agree. Also, I don’t know if this has happened to anyone else - but I discussed this movie with my younger sister once. I’m the older sister (by two years), and when I watched the movie I totally believed that Dottie dropped it on purpose. Whereas my younger sister saw the movie and totally believed that Kit forced Dottie to drop it. So I think our birth order definitely had something to do with which characters in the movie we identified with, and how we interpreted the ending. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/27 "2011-12-11T03:28:58Z")
That came up in the older topic, too (birth order if you’re a sibling in connection to what you think). Seemed that most older siblings think she dropped it while the younger ones don’t. Not in my case, though. Me, I’m the oldest, and I think she didn’t drop it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/28 "2011-12-11T03:32:40Z")
I believe Dottie dropped it on purpose. And the ending to that movie makes me _so mad_. Kit does exactly the wrong thing from a baseball standpoint - runs through her coach’s “stop” sign in a situation where she’s dead to rights at home (and against a sensational defensive catcher). The whole movie is full of Kit acting like a jerk and me being expected to side with her. To then have Kit rewarded for making a bad baseball play at movie’s end… gah. Still bugs. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/29 "2011-12-11T04:13:18Z")
The movie is wildly ambiguous here… and not necessarily on purpose, say the way the end of “Inception” is ambiguous, but in that it’s not clear that it’s actually a well made ending. On one hand, Dottie deciding to drop the ball at that moment just doesn’t make any sense in terms of the way the script is going up to that moment; as has been pointed out, Dottie has two previous chances to let Kit win the game and both times she tries to bear her, once by getting the go-ahead hit and once by telling the pitcher Kit is vulnerable to high heat. There’s no reason at that point to think Kit has learned to lay off the high fastball, so her getting the hit is unexpected. So if Dottie has decided to drop the ball, she has made this decision **and completely reversed her position on the matter in the 30 seconds that it takes for the pitch to be delivered and Kit to hit it and round the bases.** That makes no sense, or it’s terrible filmmaking; she’s completely loyal to the concept of competition when calling the pitch and moments later, with no intervening information, she loses on purpose? What? But the truth is, it looks like she shanks the play. It’s certainly not impossible that she drops the ball but it doesn’t LOOK wholly accidental, and a collision between Lori Petty and Geena Davis is not one Ms. Petty is going to usually win. If the intent was to make it look like Kit legitimately knocks the ball out of her glove they didn’t do a great job (in a movie that generally did well getting the actresses to look like they could play baseball.) Themewise you could fight it out either way. Excellent arguments have bene made in both directions. I love the movie but scriptwise it seems really unpolished at times, like it needed a few edits to point out that the ending is the bad kind of ambiguous, or that, as others have pointed out, Kit is far less sympathetic than she should be. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/30 "2011-12-11T04:45:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s no reason at that point to think Kit has learned to lay off the high fastball, so her getting the hit is unexpected. So if Dottie has decided to drop the ball, she has made this decision **and completely reversed her position on the matter in the 30 seconds that it takes for the pitch to be delivered and Kit to hit it and round the bases.** That makes no sense, or it’s terrible filmmaking; she’s completely loyal to the concept of competition when calling the pitch and moments later, with no intervening information, she loses on purpose? What? I think that it can be argued that this is exactly what happened. Dottie initially decided to be as competitive as possible and calls for the high fastball - then when Kit shows her determination and actually hits it, Dottie realizes how extremely badly Kit wants win and that Kit values winning so much more that Dottie changes her mind as Kit rounds the bases. > [@](#): > > If the intent was to make it look like Kit legitimately knocks the ball out of her glove they didn’t do a great job (in a movie that generally did well getting the actresses to look like they could play baseball.) Yeah. The way I remember it (it’s been a few years, but I have seen the movie several times), to me it looked like Kit charges Dottie, they fall over, Dottie extends her arm while falling to the ground, and _then_ drops the ball. It didn’t fly out of her hand during the hit/tackle/whatever you call it, but after they were on the ground. Maybe they intended to show Dottie accidentally losing her grip, but the filming wasn’t clear on that. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/31 "2011-12-11T04:53:33Z")
She dropped the ball on purpose. She was done with baseball after the game anyway, going on to family life with her soon to be husband. Her sister has nothing but baseball going on, and would still be playing. Giving her sister the moment of glory was a noble sacrifice that both of them recognized, but would never acknowledge. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/32 "2011-12-11T05:06:12Z")
I think it was an accident, but she didn’t fight hard to stop and was pleased how things worked out. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/33 "2011-12-11T05:25:50Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think she dropped it on purpose. Dottie was the kind of player who would have had her arm torn off before she’d miss the ball, unless it was her idea to drop it because she loved her sister more than she loved playing and winning (which was A LOT). If you think she dropped it on purpose, wouldn’t it have been easier to let her sister strike her out instead of nearly taking her head off with the hit that scored game-leading runs? How about dropping the throw? She couldn’t have known that her sister was going to ignore the stop sign, right? She had ample opportunity to throw the game if that’s what she wanted to do. Nothing that happened indicated any sort of premeditation. She simply got crushed and dropped the ball. It happens. Look up Ernie Lombardi for a fine example of a costly home plate collision. ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/34 "2011-12-11T05:49:25Z")
Older sister here. My little sister loved this movie as a kid and as result I’m sure I’ve seen it no fewer than 50 times. That goddamn song they sing in the locker roomis one of my worst ear worms _Batter up! Hear the call The time has come For one and all…_ Aargh. That said, Dottie threw the game. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/35 "2011-12-11T06:02:00Z")
If she did drop it on purpose, I want to see the scene in 10 years when Dottie throws that in her face during an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/36 "2011-12-11T06:03:30Z")
[Here’s a clip of the moment](http://movieclips.com/Fi9Jo-a-league-of-their-own-movie-racine-belles-win-the-game/) in case anyone wants to refresh their memories or analyze it further (or if you’ve never even seen the movie) Warning, though, it obviously contains spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/37 "2011-12-11T06:06:23Z")
Watching it again, it only confirms my opinion that she drops it accidentally. Point in case: The ball leaves her hand almost immediately upon impact with the ground (as if that’s the reason why she couldn’t keep a hold of it–because her hand hits the ground so hard). I’d be able to give more weight to the “she threw the game on purpose” camp if there was, at least, a slight delay in her letting go of the ball. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/38 "2011-12-11T10:46:20Z")
Okay, I haven’t seen the movie. But, seeing that clip, I honestly can’t see how you can look at that scene and think she dropped it on purpose. Why would she be so earnest about grabbing it? Why would she essentially tackle her sister? And why wouldn’t the movie have made a big deal out of her decision to drop it? You talk about 30 seconds? She’d have had to change her mind in less than one. Sorry, but it didn’t happen. She legitimately lost. Barring any other information, we have to take what is shown on screen as the truth. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/39 "2011-12-11T14:44:38Z")
I can’t believe this is a debated topic. She dropped the ball on purpose, to give her sister the glory for once. Did you NOT see the movie? Listen here now: 1. Kit was always coming in 2nd to Dottie, throughout their whole lives. 2. Dottie knew she wasn’t coming back to play next year so it didn’t matter to her if she won the world series or not. Throughout the entire movie, Dottie made it clear that baseball was not what she wanted to do. She was only doing this to make money while her husband was fighting in the war. 3. As far as her changing her mind while Kit was running the bases - Dottie and her husband spent the first six games driving back to Oregon, then changing her mind and coming back to play in game seven. She had well over a week to contemplate all that went down between her and her sister. 4. Beginning of the movie - when Dottie is talking to her grandsons while playing basketball in the driveway, she tells the older one to go easy on his little brother, then tells the little brother to kick the older one’s butt. This should tell you how important it was to her that the younger sibling gets a win now and then. 5. She told the league president to trade her to another team - this should also tell you that she wanted Kit to be happy and it didn’t matter to her if the team she was on won or not. She wanted the conflict with Kit to be over, even if it meant not being on the same team. 6. The game announcer shouting “Hinson dropped the ball! Hinson dropped the ball!” shows how shocking it was that someone as talented as Dottie would drop the ball in that scenario. No one in their right mind would think she would drop it unless it was on purpose. 7. The scene with Kit on the teams shoulders, then they cut to Tom Hanks and Dottie watching. Did you see the look on Dottie’s face?? She’s so happy that her sister’s finally the hero she always wanted to be. She did what big sisters are supposed to do - took care of her little sister. 8. When the game starts, Dottie wants to win. When she hits the go ahead single over Kits head - then sees Kit crying hysterically in the dugout - that’s when she knows that Kit needs to succeed. That’s the moment when she changes her mind and decides that if given the opportunity, she was going to make sure Kit wins it all. /steps off soapbox…🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725/40 "2011-12-11T15:48:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Okay, I haven’t seen the movie. But, seeing that clip, I honestly can’t see how you can look at that scene and think she dropped it on purpose. Why would she be so earnest about grabbing it? Why would she essentially tackle her sister? And why wouldn’t the movie have made a big deal out of her decision to drop it? > > You talk about 30 seconds? She’d have had to change her mind in less than one. Sorry, but it didn’t happen. She legitimately lost. Barring any other information, we have to take what is shown on screen as the truth. If you see the scene in the context of the film, you would go the other way. You can’t just look at this scene and understand the characters. It is done in an ambiguous way. So there is no definitive answer. Unless, the writer, director and the actor all state that that is how the scene is played. \*\* Miller\*\*, you say it would be a rat bastard thing to do to her team, how about quitting for the first games of the series and then coming back later? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-a-debate-in-a-league-of-their-own-open-spoilers-in-thread/605725.md?page=3)