# Settle an arguement (Voyuerism-related; TMI maybe?) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 25, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931 "2007-10-25T05:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/61 "2007-10-26T11:08:26Z")
[QUOTE=Telperien] Getting off on watching your lover with someone else is actually a fairly common kink. I am slightly amused at all the people saying it means you’re messed up in the head. [/QUOTE] That’s because you’re slightly misrepresenting what people said - it _could_ be an indication of some deeper issues, is I think all that most people were saying, who expressed such reservations. OK, _anything_ could be such an indicator, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/62 "2007-10-26T13:38:46Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] So please answer this poll with **TWO answers**. One, if it would ever be hot or a turn on for you to watch your wife/girlfriend/fiancee/SO have foreplay OR have sex with another guy (either or both) AND two, if you think that watching that sort of sexual activity is a turn on is sick/wrong/disgusting for another guy to have or not. [/QUOTE] OK. [ol][li]No, it would never be hot or a turn on to watch my wife with another person of whatever persuasion.[\*]Yes, it is sick/wrong/disgusting to want to watch this.[/ol]What will I do to try to enforce this last belief on others? Nothing much beyond enjoying my feelings of smug superiority. [/li] Judgementalism is the last taboo. I’m cutting edge. :eek: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/63 "2007-10-26T13:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Judgementalism is the last taboo. I’m cutting edge. :eek: [/QUOTE] That is just so gross. I can’t believe anyone would do something so perverted as judge others for their private sexual behaviours. You’re a freak and a pervert, to get turned on by judging others. You should be on a register somewhere; like the Sex Offender’s register but reserved for you and your freakish breathren who dare to judge other people for their private sexual kinks. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/64 "2007-10-26T13:48:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] OK. [ol][li]No, it would never be hot or a turn on to watch my wife with another person of whatever persuasion.[\*]Yes, it is sick/wrong/disgusting to want to watch this.[/ol][/li] [/QUOTE] Why? I ask this in the spirit of honest discussion, if you’re willing. What about it is inherently sick or wrong? I can’t see a blessed thing wrong with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/65 "2007-10-26T13:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] I want this on a tee shirt. [/QUOTE] With or without the typo? 😃 😃 😃 I wouldn’t be into watching an S.O. with someone else. Then again, I’ve never fantasized about being in a threesome. A nineteensome, well that’s old hat. 😉 Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/66 "2007-10-26T14:09:53Z")
Count me in with the group that is amazed that anyone would see this as being sick and disturbing. There’s nothing bizarre about it at all to me. I mean, seriously, how many folks like porn? This particular fantasy is nothing but live action porn with your significant other as the star. If you aren’t a jealous type, then it won’t bother you. If you _are_, then it will. But the fundamentals behind it is no different than popping in your favorite flick and enjoying the show. I’m wondering if people are really thinking about this logically. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/67 "2007-10-26T14:28:04Z")
To me, it stands in stark contrast to other kinks. . .eating ass, bondage, water sports, foot fetish, whatever. I think that it indicates that you’re getting off on watching your woman get “violated”. I put it in quotes because it’s not exactly the right word, and probably too strong a word. I don’t see how you can see your sexual partner as an equal and then ask her to get fucked by another dude for your jollies. Do you think you’re doing her a favor, like “I’m going to let you fuck another guy, but I get to watch”? Even if it was something that turned me on, I’ve never been with a woman who would agree. I imagine that you would have to seek out a woman with very low self esteem to get her to agree to that. So, I don’t think I’d call it “sick”, but I don’t think it’s very cool either. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/68 "2007-10-26T14:31:03Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Count me in with the group that is amazed that anyone would see this as being sick and disturbing. There’s nothing bizarre about it at all to me. I mean, seriously, how many folks like porn? This particular fantasy is nothing but live action porn with your significant other as the star. If you aren’t a jealous type, then it won’t bother you. If you _are_, then it will. But the fundamentals behind it is no different than popping in your favorite flick and enjoying the show. I’m wondering if people are really thinking about this logically. [/QUOTE] You make it sound like watching porn is about “what beautiful love making that is. I am so romantically aroused, I’m going to masterbate.” Porn is about degradation. It’s about fantasizing what you don’t do with your wife. I see having another guy fuck your girl on the same level as asking my girl if I could blow my load on her face. Would I like to do that to Ann Coulter? You bet your ass. My wife? Not a fucking chance. I wouldn’t date a woman who would allow it. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/69 "2007-10-26T14:53:50Z")
1. I don’t quite think for me it would be a turn-on, but depending on circumstances and exactly what kind of a relationship I have with the guy, it would not necessarily bother me immensely to watch him getting it on with another girl. 2. I absolutely do not think it is weird, sick, or disgusting that a man would be turned on watching his girlfriend do it with another man; or for a woman to be turned on watching her boyfriend do it with another girl. I consider such actions very, very far down on the “WTF?” scale. Definitely not disgusting. If all parties concerned are agreeable to the event, great. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/70 "2007-10-26T14:59:42Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] You make it sound like watching porn is about “what beautiful love making that is. I am so romantically aroused, I’m going to masterbate.” Porn is about degradation. It’s about fantasizing what you don’t do with your wife. [/quote] I thought it was about watching two people have hot monkey sex in sometimes wild and unlikely scenarios. Maybe degradation is often a part of it, but so can sex between two perfectly ordinary lovers. Are we about to label anyone who likes their sex a little mean and rough crazy? Degradation is in the eye of the beholder, anyway. Some people think that fellatio by its very nature is degrading. > [@](#): > > I see having another guy fuck your girl on the same level as asking my girl if I could blow my load on her face. Maybe the OP sees it as no different as watching a porno with his gf as as the star, like I said before. There’s no logical reason why watching another man bone your gf/wife is automatically about degrading _her_. If she’s into it as much as anyone else in the room (which I’m hoping is the case), then its simply normal consensual sex with a twist: instead of being a direct participant, the OP is getting his satisfaction vicariously. Not seeing the big deal about it. Nope. Not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/71 "2007-10-26T15:01:30Z")
Well, the only person in this thread who seems to have direct experience as being the woman in this said the man was a very controlling guy. I can’t imagine a guy who would want to do this as anything else. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/72 "2007-10-26T15:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] To me, it stands in stark contrast to other kinks. . .eating ass, bondage, water sports, foot fetish, whatever. I think that it indicates that you’re getting off on watching your woman get “violated”. I put it in quotes because it’s not exactly the right word, and probably too strong a word. I don’t see how you can see your sexual partner as an equal and then ask her to get fucked by another dude for your jollies. [/QUOTE] This is patent nonsense. I mean, just going out on a limb here, but you can see your sexual partner as an equal and ask her to get fucked by another dude for your jollies _if it’s also for her jollies_, right? I mean, I see my wife as an equal, but I ask her to have sex with _me_ for my jollies. Does that mean I’m “violating” her? Obviously not. She wants to do it, I want to do it, we do it, happy times all around. I think if **Idle** was saying that he is turned on by the idea of his SO having sex with a man _for no reason other than to make Idle happy_, or against her will, then I’d see your point. > [@](#): > > Even if it was something that turned me on, I’ve never been with a woman who would agree. I imagine that you would have to seek out a woman with very low self esteem to get her to agree to that. So, I don’t think I’d call it “sick”, but I don’t think it’s very cool either. Again, nonsense. Why would a woman have to have low self-esteem to do this? Seriously, you’re just throwing out phrases without explaining the connection. I am married. Suppose I said to my wife, “hey, honey, I get turned on by the thought of you making out with other men. So if it ever so happens that you find yourself attracted to another man and want to make out with him, you can do so without fear that it will offend me or hurt my feelings.” Now - explain to me why a woman who feels good about herself would be any more or less likely to take me up on that than a woman who doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Well, the only person in this thread who seems to have direct experience as being the woman in this said the man was a very controlling guy. > > I can’t imagine a guy who would want to do this as anything else. Actually, I’m pretty sure **Idle** implied that he, himself, has direct experience. Judging by the degree to which he disappeared when his fiancee was around during the Asylum Lane Mafia, I’m guessing he’s pretty far from the controlling sort. And you know what? I never exactly thought I’d share this on a public message board, but what the hell. I have a similar turn-on. It is tamer - although I suspect some would find it even more inexplicable, because it doesn’t involve me even as a spectactor - but it comes from the same place. And you will have to take my word for this, but “controlling” is not a word that applies one bit to either participant in my marriage. > [@](#): > > Porn is about degradation. It’s about fantasizing what you don’t do with your wife. Uh… porn isn’t always about degredation, and not everyone’s marital sex life is as boring as that sentence would imply. I think that ultimately, the mindset that finds this sick and disgusting is basically just a fetishization of jealousy and envy, which is fine and dandy - but it’s still fetishization. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/73 "2007-10-26T15:29:58Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] I can’t imagine a guy who would want to do this as anything else. [/QUOTE] I know of at least two guys who have this fetish. Neither one are controlling. But they aren’t jealous types. I think that’s the key factor. And for more TMI, I’m a woman who’d has no compunctions acting out this fantasy. There’s no reason why it would take a controlling personality to do this if you can find a woman who likes it as much as you do. But that rationale applies to everything. Even stuff that most people consider mundane. Like having sex at all. Do an experiment. Imagine the OP is a woman, talking about watching her man with other women. Then watch how difficult it becomes to think of her being controlling. Oddly enough, you may actually see her as a victim of a controlling jerk who has suckered her into letting him fool around with other chicks right in front of her face. Interesting how she can never be seen as in control in either situation. Do we still think sex and sexual fetish is something that women put up with to please their men? I think we do. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/74 "2007-10-26T15:33:05Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] I know of at least two guys who have this fetish. Neither one are controlling. But they aren’t jealous types. I think that’s the key factor. [/QUOTE] If you think that the key factor in not wanting to see your wife fucked by another man is because you’re a “jealous type”, we simply have no common ground to continue this. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/75 "2007-10-26T15:39:41Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] If you think that the key factor in not wanting to see your wife fucked by another man is because you’re a “jealous type”, we simply have no common ground to continue this. [/QUOTE] Then what’s the key factor? Seriously. What is it? ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/76 "2007-10-26T15:48:33Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] Well, the only person in this thread who seems to have direct experience as being the woman in this said the man was a very controlling guy. I can’t imagine a guy who would want to do this as anything else. [/QUOTE] Nor I, it’s not something I’m interested in doing either. A bad experience can sometimes be fetishised in a good one. I had a girlfriend once who wanted me to spank her and say horrible things about her in bed about how she was such a slut and such a bad girl. I’m sure this was her way of controlling the fact that she was abused as a child - she could now control her abuser as it was and could control the situation as an adult that she couldn’t as a child. And since it was totally consensual and didn’t freak me out too much and she seemed to enjoy it and we both had some monster orgasms, who exactly was I hurting? The ghost of her childhood abuser? The Baptist minister? The morals police? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/77 "2007-10-26T15:49:37Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Then what’s the key factor? Seriously. What is it? [/QUOTE] The same factor that repulses me when I think of taking a piss on my wife’s face. . .something that some people seem to enjoy. Jealousy is what you feel when you learn that your wife has been sleeping with your neighbor. Respect for your wife is why you don’t ask your wife to fuck your neighbor while you jerk off. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/78 "2007-10-26T15:53:38Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] The same factor that repulses me when I think of taking a piss on my wife’s face. . .something that some people seem to enjoy. Jealousy is what you feel when you learn that your wife has been sleeping with your neighbor. Respect for your wife is why you don’t ask your wife to fuck your neighbor while you jerk off. [/QUOTE] So it’s personal repulsion then? You don’t like it, and wouldn’t do it, so it’s wrong? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/79 "2007-10-26T15:55:24Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] The same factor that repulses me when I think of taking a piss on my wife’s face. . .something that some people seem to enjoy. [/QUOTE] Oh! I get it! The idea here is that your wife couldn’t possibly _enjoy_ having sex with anyone but your ownself. To her, the idea of even _touching_ another man, who isn’t you, would be so awful and not-at-all-erotic that it would feel, to her, just like getting pissed on. So you wouldn’t want this - not because you’re jealous, mind, but because you wouldn’t want your wife to have such an inherently degrading experience. And you believe this, really? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931/80 "2007-10-26T16:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] If you think that the key factor in not wanting to see your wife fucked by another man is because you’re a “jealous type”, we simply have no common ground to continue this. [/QUOTE] Better that the difference be due to jealousy (which is a perfectly normal and understandable emotion) than illogical Puritanical hang ups dashed with sexism and maybe homophobia. But perhaps you’re right that jealousy isn’t the key factor here. It’s the only one that makes sense to me, though. Others? Not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-arguement-voyuerism-related-tmi-maybe/423931.md?page=5)