# Settle an argument: Bruce Lee fights Muhammad Ali. Who wins? (with proper poll) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953 "2011-12-21T15:58:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/21 "2011-12-21T19:37:26Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > I hate to break this to you, but Bruce Lee is dead, and Ali is in no condition to fight anybody. I think Ali is in fine condition to fight a dead man. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/22 "2011-12-21T20:23:49Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I’m sure people will just pass it off as “being nice” to a dead guy, but Chuck Norris has said that in his opinion had Lee chosen to fight, he would have been a world champion. Norris trained a fair bit with Lee, so I think his statement was legitimate. In another interview, though, Norris strongly iimplied that he would have outclassed Lee in a real fight, since Norris was a competitive fighter and Lee only did exhibitions. In that same interview, though, Norris admitted that he and Lee “never went there.” They trained together, but never fought. And, yes, I realize I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth now. The point is that interesting rhetorical cases can be made for both Lee as the greatest fighter in the world ca. 1971, or Lee as more of a _poseur_. Since there wasn’t really a medium for competition like that forty years ago, we will never know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/23 "2011-12-21T21:54:29Z")
NM. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/24 "2011-12-21T22:14:51Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Why do we think Bruce Lee can fight? I mean, I’m sure he’s a lot better than your average guy, but he never defeated a pro or significant amatuer in a fight, as far as I am aware. Because Lee is bad-ass. Just like **appleciders** said in post 8. > [@appleciders](#): > > I expect Lee to disable one of Lee’s legs fairly quickly and for the fight to get ugly for Ali from there. See? Lee would disable HIS OWN GODDAMN LEG for a fight just to make it sort of fair and he’d still whoop-ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/25 "2011-12-21T23:43:42Z")
Ali was a heavyweight, that moved like a welterweight. Ali wins, period. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/26 "2011-12-22T05:28:01Z")
Comparing a martial art actor and exhibitionist with Muhammad Ali seems a little unfair IMO. Ali went into very deep waters in some of his 70s fights - literally putting his life on the line. Bruce is a legend, obv, but his accomplishments are in a different sphere really. Ali is not THE GREATEST because he was fast, strong, tough, durable, intelligent and flamboyant. He’s the greatest because he had all those things embedded in the heart of a champion. He always fought with tremendous heart and courage. Bruce would fold when faced with such a warrior - ring, street you name it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/27 "2011-12-22T06:13:44Z")
In a boxing ring Ali is going to absolutely destroy Lee. If Lee attempts to actually fight Ali, he’ll be on the canvas in less than a round. If he tries to just dance around he’d lose a decision, or make a mistake and end up on the canvas. The different in size and weight is nearly insurmountable, and Ali was a genuine martial artist - boxing is as refined and as difficult a martial art as any. In the street, I’m not sure. Lee had a lot of experience in street fighting, which is a different thing entirely, but one punch from a tremendously strong man 75 pounds heavier than you is enough to send you to the hospital, so Lee only has to make one error. And to be honest Busy has a point. Lee’s serious FIGHTS mostly ended when he was a kid; Ali was a professional fighter who tested the very limits of human spirit and endurance in wars against Frazier, Foreman, Ken Norton, George Chuvalo, Floyd Patterson. Ali once fought ten rounds with Ken Norton _when his goddamned jaw was broken_. Ali’s record proves his ferocity and his ability to summon will and strength when the chips are down. Lee spent much of his career doing stunts and acting in movies. Lee could sure as hell fight, and he kicked some people’s asses, but usually in cases where the person was really out of their element and Lee could drub them within seconds. Muhammad Ali would not be so easily overcome. I really am not convinced Lee could beat Ali in any scenario. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/28 "2011-12-22T06:36:46Z")
Ali either way. . ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/29 "2011-12-22T07:20:30Z")
Ali’s weight and reach advantage would overwhelmed Bruce Lee in the ring. It’d be pretty ugly. On the streets Ali can fight barefisted. If he can grab a hold of Bruce he would toss him around like a rag doll. Then beat his brains out. You also have to remember that Ali in his prime can take a real beating (just check out his Frasier fights) and keep on ticking. He’ll be able to stand Bruce’s hits. Can Bruce take any of Ali’s hard hits? Don’t think so. All this coming from a big Bruce Lee fan. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/30 "2011-12-22T07:34:05Z")
Just for the record, Ali also trained with the founder of modern Taekwando in America…so “martial arts” wasn’t totally foreign to him ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/31 "2011-12-22T08:48:08Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Because Lee is bad-ass. Just like **appleciders** said in post 8. > > See? Lee would disable HIS OWN GODDAMN LEG for a fight just to make it sort of fair and he’d still whoop-ass. Ah, yes. You’ve cut to the heart of my argument. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/32 "2011-12-22T14:42:38Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Just for the record, Ali also trained with the founder of modern Taekwando in America…so “martial arts” wasn’t totally foreign to him Well… yeah. As I pointed out, Ali didn’t have to train with a taekwondo master to learn martial arts. He was a great champion of one of the great martial arts; boxing. It’s a martial art just as much as karate or taekwondo, and takes full time dedication to master. It’s not just two thugs slugging it out like a bar fight; when you watch Ali taking on Foreman, you’re watching a duel of martial artists of the highest order. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/33 "2011-12-22T14:53:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well… yeah. As I pointed out, Ali didn’t have to train with a taekwondo master to learn martial arts. He was a great champion of one of the great martial arts; boxing. It’s a martial art just as much as karate or taekwondo, and takes full time dedication to master. It’s not just two thugs slugging it out like a bar fight; when you watch Ali taking on Foreman, you’re watching a duel of martial artists of the highest order. I’d call Foreman no higher than 2nd order at that point in his career. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/34 "2011-12-22T15:40:25Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d call Foreman no higher than 2nd order at that point in his career. You realize your credibility just took a huge hit. In 1974, George Foreman was coming off of huge wins over Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, two fighters who had beaten Ali. If that’s not highest order, I don’t know what was. Granted, he made some major strategic mistakes fighting Ali, but he was an excellent fighter by any standard. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/35 "2011-12-22T15:54:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well… yeah. As I pointed out, Ali didn’t have to train with a taekwondo master to learn martial arts. He was a great champion of one of the great martial arts; boxing. It’s a martial art just as much as karate or taekwondo, and takes full time dedication to master. It’s not just two thugs slugging it out like a bar fight; when you watch Ali taking on Foreman, you’re watching a duel of martial artists of the highest order. But the OP changed the rules. It’s not a boxing match anymore, which is what Ali excelled in. While I would agree that boxing can be classified as a martial art, it is an art with a set of assumed rules. In regular American boxing, you don’t have to worry about kicks, throws, or sweeps (trips), so he wouldn’t have trained in defending against those moves. A Greco-Roman wrestler doesn’t learn how to defend against strikes, as those moves are not available within the ruleset of the sport. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/36 "2011-12-22T16:22:55Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > I hate to break this to you, but Bruce Lee is dead, and Ali is in no condition to fight anybody. Surely though he could win against a corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/37 "2011-12-22T16:32:48Z")
Ali either way and it wouldn’t take long enough to even be interesting. Now an interesting match would be Ali v. Jack Johnson with both fighters in their prime. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/38 "2011-12-22T17:07:57Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > But the OP changed the rules. It’s not a boxing match anymore, which is what Ali excelled in. > > While I would agree that boxing can be classified as a martial art, it is an art with a set of assumed rules. In regular American boxing, you don’t have to worry about kicks, throws, or sweeps (trips), so he wouldn’t have trained in defending against those moves. A Greco-Roman wrestler doesn’t learn how to defend against strikes, as those moves are not available within the ruleset of the sport. Well, asking if Lee could beat Ali in a conventional boxing match is a bit like asking if Michael Jordan is a better golfer than Tiger Woods or something, so obvious as to be not worth asking. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/39 "2011-12-22T17:08:37Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Well, asking if Lee could beat Ali in a conventional boxing match is a bit like asking if Michael Jordan is a better golfer than Tiger Woods or something, so obvious as to be not worth asking. Yet some answers were provided along these lines. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953/40 "2011-12-22T19:16:36Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Well, asking if Lee could beat Ali in a conventional boxing match is a bit like asking if Michael Jordan is a better golfer than Tiger Woods or something, so obvious as to be not worth asking. Three out of every ten respondents believe Bruce Lee would win a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. I find that astounding, but it is so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settle-an-argument-bruce-lee-fights-muhammad-ali-who-wins-with-proper-poll/606953.md?page=3)