# Settling disputes back in the olden days. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 6, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133 "2009-01-06T21:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/1 "2009-01-06T21:03:23Z")
When was the last time two warriors duked it out to the death, to decide a battle or a war? Or any major disagreement for that matter? When did the tradition, if it ever was one, go out of fashion? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/2 "2009-01-06T21:08:25Z")
Has that ever happened? The closest I can remember to that happening was William the Conqueror’s herald asking permission to strike the first blow in the Battle of Hastings, killing one or more enemy before being killed himself. I know there were man-to-man duels before battles, but to my knowledge they were not allowed to determine the outcome of a battle, even if the battle may have been delayed until their outcome. Although this is certainly a widespread enough concept that I would be interested in any examples you may have. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/3 "2009-01-06T21:38:55Z")
Ever hear of a _straightener_ Ivan? Liverpool term for settling your differences hand to hand. [This article](http://www.kirkbytimes.co.uk/news_items/2004_news/capital_guncrime.html) laments the waning of the straightener in the face of rising gun crime. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/4 "2009-01-06T21:47:55Z")
The term is [“single combat”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_combat#Single_combat) wherein my best fighter and your best fighter meet in a battle to the death to decide the battle. In the Bible, it was David and Goliath. In the Iliad, Menelaus and Paris. In history, not so much. The latest example in the linked article was in 1593. _ETA: Like the OP said, it was more often a prelude to the full battle rather than to decide the battle._ ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/5 "2009-01-06T21:53:28Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Ever hear of a _straightener_ Ivan? Liverpool term for settling your differences hand to hand. [This article](http://www.kirkbytimes.co.uk/news_items/2004_news/capital_guncrime.html) laments the waning of the straightener in the face of rising gun crime. That was an interesting read. I was certainly aware of the concept of ‘straightners’, having been along to one or two myself, although never as one of the chief protaganists. As the rest of the article states, that sort of thing has gone a bit out of fashion now. Wasn’t David and Goliath an early example of a battle being decided mano a mano, and didn’t warring Native American tribes settle their disputes this way sometimes? Or is that a Hollywood cliche/myth? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/6 "2009-01-06T23:26:43Z")
Since I’m just pulling this out of my- uh, HAT, take it with a grain of salt; but I believe there might have been situations where this happened. One might be where two rival claimants to a throne decided that their chances of winning a personal duel were as good or better than their chances of winning a civil war. Or where a conflict had arisen due to the policies of the two leaders, and it was recognized that the dispute would die with one or the other of the leaders. In short, any situation where the rank and file could live with the outcome either way, and both sides decided that even winning by battle would be too costly. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/7 "2009-01-06T23:39:44Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Ever hear of a _straightener_ Ivan? Liverpool term for settling your differences hand to hand. [This article](http://www.kirkbytimes.co.uk/news_items/2004_news/capital_guncrime.html) laments the waning of the straightener in the face of rising gun crime. …must… not… start… gun…debate… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/8 "2009-01-07T00:49:43Z")
If you’re referring to dueling over matters of honour, the practice fell out of favour in the United States and Europe in the 19th century. However, it carried on in South America into the 20th century, despite being outlawed. Several interesting bits on wikipedia on the subject: > [@](#): > > # In Peru there were several high-profile duels by politicians in the early part of the twentieth century including one in 1957 involving Fernando Belaúnde Terry—who went on to become President. > **[Duel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel)** > > A duel is an arranged engagement in combat between two people with matched weapons. > During the 17th and 18th centuries (and earlier), duels were mostly single combats fought with swords (the rapier and later the small sword), but beginning in the late 18th century in England, duels were more commonly fought using pistols. Fencing and shooting continued to coexist throughout the 19th century. > The duel was based on a code of honor. Duels were fought not to kill the opponent but to gain "satisfact... ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/9 "2009-01-07T16:05:05Z")
[This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_of_the_Thirty) is the most notable example I can recall. ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/settling-disputes-back-in-the-olden-days/480133/10 "2009-01-07T17:52:03Z")
Not sure if it’s exactly what you were thinking of, but there was an attempt to try an English case through trial by battle as late as 1817, but one of the potential combatants wussed out: > **[Ashford v Thornton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v._Thornton)** > > Ashford v Thornton (1818) 106 ER 149 is an English criminal case in the Court of King's Bench which upheld the right of the defendant to trial by battle on a private appeal from an acquittal for murder. > In 1817, Abraham Thornton was charged with the murder of Mary Ashford. Thornton had met Ashford at a dance and had walked with her from the event. The next morning, she was found drowned in a pit with little evidence of violence. Public opinion was heavily against Thornton, but the jury quickl...