# Sevastopol: stupid, dishonest hateful piece of shit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168 "2006-01-30T04:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/1 "2006-01-30T04:44:12Z")
It’s getting close to that time again, when the Anti-Doper 2006 takes his or her crown. Sevasty is campaigning hard. But until it comes time to crown someone Least Valuable Doper, I figured that to avoid hijacking a thread in GD any further by attempting to get him to stop lying through his teeth, I’ll start this Pit thread. To put this all in context, this is a poster who has argued that the deliberate and cold blooded murder of a pregnant woman and her children can be waved away with a [so be it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4826831&postcount=228) He first claimed that “This isn’t an irrefutable argument by any means, or even one I necessarily support.” His claims of intellectual neutrality were, of course, shown to be simple lies and baiting when he continued on with claims that [ > [@](#): > > “QED, those taking the life were engaged in a lawful. albeit regrettable action. > Had not the occupiers the free and open opportunity to leave, which they repudiated. Contrary to what you assert I don’t acknowledge this argument to be weak or false.” ]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4830652&postcount=274](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4830652&postcount=274)) The classic question, of course, being “were you lying then, or are you lying now?” He then went on to deny that he had said what he had said. Rather stupid, since [his posts didn’t exactly disapear just becuase they were revolting.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4835660&postcount=322). It’s one thing to be a liar, it’s quite another to be a liar who is so painfully stupid that he lies even when he can be quoted. And not only is he a stupid, hateful shitlicker who supports the murder of Israeli civilians, but he’s [too stupid and/or dishonest to answer a question.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4838156&postcount=408) When asked why Palestinians would have a right to murder Israelis for taking property but no other country would, he called the question “incoherent”. [He goes on to ignore the question some more](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4849845&postcount=488), and even when it’s shown that he’s talking out his ass when it comes to legal matter he simply runs away from the thread, not posting any more. But… all this is background and simply goes to show a pattern of stupid, dishonest, hateful bullshit. What takes the cake is [a recent thread in GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=355905). Let’s follow the bouncing ball of intellectual whoredom, shall we? [He denies that Hamas has genocidal goals.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7045268&postcount=147) This while admitting that Hamas wants to “reclaim” the territory held by Israel, knowing that Hamas operates via violence. It takes a special kind of stupidity coupled with a special kind of dishonesty to ignore the fact that making a population leave by killing them is genocide. But wait, there’s more! [He then denies that Hamas has malice towards Israelis.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7045539&postcount=152) Shall I repeat that? He claims that **Hamas** has no malice towards Israelis. Hamas. No malice. The words themselves were so horrified to be in each other’s company that several dictionaries spontaneously burst into flames. Two posts later [I responded](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7045619&postcount=154) by citing Hamas’ own positions, including Hamas’ support and endorsement for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and a statement right in the Hamas charter saying > [@](#): > > Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: > > “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). In a later post, but before his next lying response, I also cite how Hamas runs camps in which “[t]hey also [teach children] to sing “intifada songs,” including one urging them to “kill Zionists wherever they are, in the name of God.”” No malice there, is there? Killing them wherever they are is obviously so full of the milk of human kindness that I’m surprised I didn’t get warm fuzzies. But is Sevasty content being an honorless hateful liar? Nope. He has to show himself to be so stupid that he’s in danger of drowning when it rains. He actually has the nerve to claim that [“It’s clear Hamas have no genocidal intent to Israeli Jews or to Jewish people generally, so that’s what I said. There is no genocide planned and no malice.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7046033&postcount=163) No malice. “Kill the zionists wherever they are.” No genocide. “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.” After his denial I [again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7046070&postcount=164) provide him with the cite of Hamas’ own words. But even with having that cite presented to him, again, he [still continues to lie.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7047834&postcount=183) [And continues.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7048145&postcount=187) This dishonest waste of space goes so far as to say: > [@](#): > > So I look through the Hamas Covenant during my break and they claim of planned genocide is unfounded. > > Why then does the claim persist? Such claims exist to obscure the simple fact that in the plain light of day the actions of Israel in taking land are pretty unacceptable. This, after I have provided Hamas’ own words. Several times. For those curious, by the way, [here is Hamas’ charter](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm). You can read their stated goal of genocide at the end of Article 7. Not content to let his status as an honorless lying piece of infectous human waste remain in doubt, he [continues.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7048287&postcount=192) This time displaying yet more stupidity which can only be considered epic in scale. To deny something that has been cited and quoted so many times requires a special kind of creature. So there I leave it, I’ve gotten my venting in at an honorless waste of carbon and, hopefully, prevented a GD thread from being hijacked by having to continually point out, with textual citations, again, and again, and again, that he’s a damn liar. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/2 "2006-01-30T04:49:50Z")
Sevastopol? I gotta admit, this is a sensational Pitting. A true 10 out of 10. Thoroughly researched, and basically, you just got your ass handed to you on a platter. Along with your head. Suck it up and learn from it. Basically, this is an opportunity to demonstrate magnanimity and empathy. Try it. It’ll do ya good. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/3 "2006-01-30T05:24:12Z")
Bravo. An Oscar-worthy Pitting. I sit in amazement. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/4 "2006-01-30T06:31:42Z")
Generally speaking, \*\*Sevastopol \*\* is overreaching. There is however one item that bothers me from \*\*Finnagain \*\*: his use of the 1988 charter of Hamas in the discussion, and that is because Hamas ran in the election with a changed platform: [http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/669006.html](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/669006.html) > [@](#): > > Last update - 11:35 11/01/2006 > > Hamas platform mentions armed struggle, but not Israel’s destruction > > By Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondent > > Hamas published its official platform for the upcoming Palestinian elections, **which proved to be more moderate than either its 1988 charter or public statements made by its leaders throughout the ensuing years**. > > The document makes no mention of the principle that has been Hamas’ raison d’etre since its founding: the destruction of Israel and establishment of a Palestinian state on all territory west of the Jordan River in its place. > > However, the document’s introduction comes out strongly in favor of armed struggle. Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel said that Hamas should be accepted as long as it renounces its goal of destroying Israel. I don’t trust Hamas, but not willing to deal with them is dumb, I do trust Israel will be ready if Hamas does not act in the proper way from here on. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/5 "2006-01-30T06:53:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Generally speaking, \*\*Sevastopol \*\* is overreaching. There is however one item that bothers me from \*\*Finnagain \*\*: his use of the 1988 charter of Hamas in the discussion, and that is because Hamas ran in the election with a changed platform: But a platform for election does not negate the group’s charter. Moreoever, this is not exactly anything new for Palestinian politics. Say one thing in writing for international consumption, and another to your constituents. [ > [@](#): > > "We have a new plan; to teach men the land of Palestine; the geography of Palestine; the history of Palestine; and the history of the Arab and Muslim Nation. Our plan has nothing to do with the Israeli enemy. We do not recognize the Israeli enemy, nor his right to be our neighbor, nor to stay [on the land], nor his ownership of any inch of land. Therefore, we do not see [Israel] as an ally, not in policy, not in security, not in economy and not in any form of cooperation. Israel is an enemy who is interested in uprooting us, and we are interested in restoring our full rights to return all the people of Palestine to the land of Palestine. Our principles are clear: Palestine is a land of Waqf [Islamic trust], which can not be given up. ]([http://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulletins%20new.htm#b220106](http://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulletins%20new.htm#b220106)) Still think that Hamas has “[made] no mention of the principle that has been Hamas’ raison d’etre since its founding: the destruction of Israel and establishment of a Palestinian state on all territory west of the Jordan River in its place?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/6 "2006-01-30T07:26:32Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > But a platform for election does not negate the group’s charter. It is however the most recent position from Hamas, the point here is to make them follow their word, one way or another. > [@](#): > > Moreoever, this is not exactly anything new for Palestinian politics. Say one thing in writing for international consumption, and another to your constituents. You must be confusing me with someone else, I already do take that into account. The idea here is to pressure them to follow more closely what they put in writing. Everything that you are pointing that is coming from Hamas I already noticed, and I’m sure Israel and the west will be ready to deal with Hamas if they attempt to follow on those threats. > [@](#): > > [url=http://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulletins%20new.htm#b220106] > Still think that Hamas has “[made] no mention of the principle that has been Hamas’ raison d’etre since its founding: the destruction of Israel and establishment of a Palestinian state on all territory west of the Jordan River in its place?” Don’t put words in my mouth; I did not say that, it was the magazine from Israel who said that. And even then you are now misleading: I was reporting only on the election charter, unless you can point to where on the charter that appears, you are only pointing then to what elements of Hamas are doing separately from the new government. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/7 "2006-01-30T10:32:05Z")
Nice OP, **FinnAgain** , but I doubt it’ll be much help. **Sevastopol** may be a smug little prick, but he’s too slick a cockroach to be pinned down that easily. I forsee him diverting this pitting off-course in one of two ways: 1. He’ll portray it as some sort of long-running feud betwen the two of you, and claim to have “won” previous scaps, even though there is no evidence of such an event ever occurring. Expect maximum snideness. 2. He’ll divert it into an vaguely-worded attack on Israel’s policies and very existance, while trying to gather the board’s liberals to his camp. (This is not to say that **Sevastopol** is a liberal - to paraphrase Morgan Freeman in the _Shawshank Redemption_, you have to be human first). On the off-chance that he’ll actually debate your points. I think I understand the thrust of his argument - the will to destroy Israel is not genocide because not all Jews live in Israel. To him, the contry is not an actual nation but rather a colonial outpost of World Jewry. This, of course, is absurd. Israel is a real and independent nation-state, with its own unique language, culture, history and institutions. If it’s not a real country than neither is Syria… or Egypt… or France… or the U.S. If he considers mass murder or expulsion of Palestinians to be genocide - and he does - than the same must be said about Israelis. Anyway, good luck. I’ll see what I can do to help. ---
**Author:** ![EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilHamsterOnCrack)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/8 "2006-01-30T12:38:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is however the most recent position from Hamas, the point here is to make them follow their word, one way or another. Unfortunately, no. > [@](#): > > Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri vehemently denied that there was any contradiction between the platform and Hamas’s charter: “The platform refers to details and implementation methods for the next four years, while the charter lays out our permanent strategic views.” > [@](#): > > Salah Al-Bardawil, another candidate on the Hamas list, stated that “Hamas has never proposed to change or amend its charter. The platform presents a realistic view that reflects Hamas’s goals for the next four years. Had we spoken of eliminating and eradicating Israel within this period, we would have been be deceiving our people and repeating false slogans. But this does not stand in contradiction [to the fact that] we place emphasis on the elimination and non-recognition of Israel.” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/9 "2006-01-30T12:40:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is however the most recent position from Hamas, the point here is to make them follow their word, one way or another. No, it isn’t, as my quote evinced. At the same time as they were saying in writing that Israel had a right to exist, they had campaign ads on TV saying it did not. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > You must be confusing me with someone else, I already do take that into account. The idea here is to pressure them to follow more closely what they put in writing. Everything that you are pointing that is coming from Hamas I already noticed, and I’m sure Israel and the west will be ready to deal with Hamas if they attempt to follow on those threats. I guess I don’t understand then. Why did you say that you have a problem with me citing the charter, when the charter hasn’t been renounced and when Hamas officials are still using the same exact rhetoric when it’s not designed to fool international audiences? Why point out that a written platform did not contain certain language when their elections ads did? I’m honestly curious, can you please clear it up? If I misunderstood you I’m certainly willing to apologize, but I don’t grok. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Don’t put words in my mouth; I did not say that, it was the magazine from Israel who said that. I assumed that you quoted it in order to imply that you supported it. Why did you if you don’t stand behind what it said? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And even then you are now misleading: I was reporting only on the election charter, unless you can point to where on the charter that appears, you are only pointing then to what elements of Hamas are doing separately from the new government. No. I cited an election ad that Hamas ran on PA TV. One that ran on January 17th, 2006. So would you like to clarify your position, as I hardly think that it’s ‘misleading’ for me to respond to criticisms which say that there’s a problem with me citing the charter when the charter hasn’t been changed and when Hamas’ official communications still endorse it? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/10 "2006-01-30T12:42:07Z")
If it makes you feel better, I think both of you are wastes of electrons. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/11 "2006-01-30T12:44:21Z")
Oh, and: > [@Alessan](#): > > Nice OP, **FinnAgain** , > [snip] > Anyway, good luck. I’ll see what I can do to help. Thanks much on both counts. > [@silenus](#): > > ``` > Bravo. An Oscar-worthy Pitting. I sit in amazement. > > ``` Thank you kindly as well. > [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > I gotta admit, this is a sensational Pitting. A true 10 out of 10. Thoroughly researched, and basically, you just got your ass handed to you on a platter. Along with your head. Neato. Thanks for the compliment. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/12 "2006-01-30T13:52:38Z")
I pretty much agree with the premise of the OP, except I’d substitute “weaselly” for “stupid”. He also gets credit for helping to expand [the genre of Holocaust denial-denial](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7022512&postcount=33), in the thread about[Iran’s president.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354281) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/13 "2006-01-30T14:06:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > He also gets credit for helping to expand [the genre of Holocaust denial-denial](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7022512&postcount=33), Wow. Some people know no bounds, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/14 "2006-01-30T14:23:47Z")
Well Pitted, **FinnAgain** , for all the good it will do. FWIW, **Sevastapol** is one of the Dopers against whom it is possible to clearly win an argument, without any ambiguity about the result at all. Unfortunately, he is not honest enough to admit it, or perhaps perceive it, so you have to be content with the satisfaction of having been shown to be correct. It’s like wetting your pants in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling, but nobody notices. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/15 "2006-01-30T16:06:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, it isn’t, as my quote evinced. At the same time as they were saying in writing that Israel had a right to exist, they had campaign ads on TV saying it did not. Oy Vey! ;j Once again I know that, and it is reprehensible from Hamas, I’m coming from the side that believes in taking that new official charter and ram it down their throats if they don’t follow it or if they decide to follow their propaganda. > [@](#): > > I guess I don’t understand then. Why did you say that you have a problem with me citing the charter, when the charter hasn’t been renounced and when Hamas officials are still using the same exact rhetoric when it’s not designed to fool international audiences? Why point out that a written platform did not contain certain language when their elections ads did? > > I’m honestly curious, can you please clear it up? If I misunderstood you I’m certainly willing to apologize, but I don’t grok. I’m a believer in using the written language as the overriding contract. Right now it is their official government position, when in the discussion you insisted on bringing the charter of 1988 or their propaganda, you are then excluding a chunk of Palestinians that one could negotiate with. Just like Levitt in the USA once said: “No man who owns his own house and lot can be a Communist” It is obvious to me that Hamas controlling their homeland is an opportunity to find out who are the ones willing to follow the law and govern in peace or who are willing to be the stupid warriors and be destroyed. > [@](#): > > I assumed that you quoted it in order to imply that you supported it. Why did you if you don’t stand behind what it said? Oy! like Elie Wiesel and the west, my position is not to support it, but to USE the documment to take them to task against the rotten Hamas propaganda and any rotten action they perform against Israel. [http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138616481171&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull](http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138616481171&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) > [@](#): > > EU foreign ministers on Monday called on the Hamas to clarify its political intentions in an eventual Palestinian government, urging it to embrace peace efforts with Israel. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/16 "2006-01-30T16:25:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again I know that, and it is reprehensible from Hamas, I’m coming from the side that believes in taking that new official charter and ram it down their throats if they don’t follow it or if they decide to follow their propaganda. I’m confused… there is no new official charter. I think you’re refering to their campaign platform which **EvilHamsterOnCrack** was kind enough to cite Hamas saying doesn’t conflict with their charter, at all. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > I’m a believer in using the written language as the overriding contract. Right now it is their official government position, when in the discussion you insisted on bringing the charter of 1988 or their propaganda, you are then excluding a chunk of Palestinians that one could negotiate with. And yet Hamas has said, and **EvilHamster** cited it, that their campaign platform was only for the next four years and that they still hold to their genocidal ambitions. Moreoever, as we seem to have agreed (which is why I’m confused that you’re still arguing) the Palestinian government has a history of saying one thing and then writing another, when the verbal statements are the real ones to be acted upon. Why, then, cleave to the written language? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Oy! like Elie Wiesel and the west, my position is not to support it, but to USE the documment to take them to task against the rotten Hamas propaganda and any rotten action they perform against Israel. Fair enough. If you want to hold them to it, more power to you. I thought you were attempting to use it to refute my charges that Hamas has not changed its stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/17 "2006-01-30T16:56:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s like wetting your pants in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling, but nobody notices. You know, everyone says that, but I’ve yet to get away with it. Not once. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/18 "2006-01-30T18:35:28Z")
Dude still owes me a frellin’ [thread=293780]apology[/thread]. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/19 "2006-01-30T18:47:26Z")
Well, to be fair, apologizing for insults, especially outrageous slanders like that, takes honesty, integrity, and honor. So, Sevasty being Sevasty, it’s really not that surprising that he lied about you and then never retracted his slander. In addition, seeing your thread reminded me of [this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5653481#post5653481) It seems that lying about Jews and/or Israel (among other things) is a passtime for Sevasty. I wonder why… ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168/20 "2006-01-30T18:51:05Z")
I noticed **Sevastopol** never comes to his pittings. He probably is extremely uncomfortable to open up and get personal with strangers. He probably believes in detachment. He probably seriously believes that his detached musings are wise and intelligent, while people reacting to them on a personal level are simply incoherent passionate fools. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sevastopol-stupid-dishonest-hateful-piece-of-shit/342168.md?page=2)