# Seven Sisters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 5, 2000, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775 "2000-11-05T03:36:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/1 "2000-11-05T03:36:41Z")
Okay, I get the concept of the Ivy League. It’s a football grouping, not a Trilateral Commission-ordained gathering of elite schools. Harvard Yale Princeton Dartmouth Brown Columbia Cornell Pennsylvania. But who decided what the “Seven Sisters” were? What’s the rationale for putting them together? I’m not even sure which seven colleges they are… Vassar Smith Mount Holyoke Wellesley Barnard Bryn Mawr …and either Radcliffe or Sarah Lawrence. Which is the seventh, and WHY are there only seven, as opposed to the eight schools in the Ivy League? Is it because Cornell was inaugurated as a co-ed institution? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/2 "2000-11-05T03:56:55Z")
Ah. The Pleiades, you say? ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/3 "2000-11-05T04:54:54Z")
In New England the Seven Sisters may have ment universities. Ike’s classical background might take him to ancient theater. In Texas the Seven Sisters ment OIL! Exxon(Esso) Mobil Southern California(Chevron) Texaco Gulf Shell British Petroleum ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/4 "2000-11-05T05:12:36Z")
Ah…but like the Ivies, the Sisters are actually NOT a New England gang. Bryn Mawr is Pennsylvania. Vassar and Barnard and Sarah Lawrence are New York. As for the Ivy League, Cornell and Columbia are in New York…Princeton is in Joisey…and Penn is in Penn. (HYDB are in Mass, Conn, NH, and RI, respectively.) ---
**Author:** ![Surgoshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Surgoshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surgoshan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/5 "2000-11-05T05:16:33Z")
erm, Go Big Red? Probably the Seven Sisters were hyped as the colleges for women. Sort of a “Hello? We were here first and are in the northeast! We rock!” thing. So just look for the next oldest sister, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![McKenna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/db5fbb/32.png) [@McKenna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McKenna)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/6 "2000-11-05T06:16:52Z")
The one sure thing about the Seven Sisters is that each school is sure that the other schools are full of brain-dead sluts. “Bryn Mawr to wed, Smith to bed, and Wellesley to talk to” was an old saying when I was there. Alter at will. The Seven Sisters were: Wellesley Smith Mount Holyoke Radcliffe Bryn Mawr Vassar Barnard and were basically the female Ivy League. Remember that women were not allowed into most Ivies until the late sixties and early seventies; and that these schools were THE places for ambitious women to go. They were always a lot more diverse in social and economic class than most people think (OK, so there were quotas on Jews and Catholics and blacks, but usually not outright bans) and studies have shown that women’s college grads are more successful than their co-ed counterparts (although I suppose this is changing now that we can even go to the Citadel and stuff). I went because of the financial aid package and because of the courses, not because it was women, but later realized it was so damn nice NOT to have to worry about being the first woman this or that, or having the guys hog the class time, or the science labs, or get all the nice gym equipment… 😉 I think there’s probably Seven Sisters for the South and/or Western older women’s colleges, and a Catholic system for ones like Emmanuel and Regis. BTW, Vassar has “gone under”, as we called it, by going co-ed, Barnard and Radcliffe were formed just because women weren’t allowed into Columbia and Harvard, and Radcliffe doesn’t really exist anymore as a separate entity. So now there’s technically five sisters. There’s some very famous women’s colleges, like Wheaton in MA, Spellman in GA, and Mills in CA, that aren’t on the classical list. I think Oberlin was the first college to be co-ed, in the 1860’s. Not that you asked, but Wellesley and the other two ones in MA, Smith and Mount Holyoke, are doing fine staying all-women and have more applicants than they can handle, so I don’t think any of us will “go under” soon. Maybe I should start another thread for us ladies who went to these nice but sometimes odd places, on their weird customs and phrases. Ask me if the men in our dorms were allowed to move horizontally, vertically, or both… ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/7 "2000-11-05T16:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McKenna \* > \*\*…Maybe I should start another thread for us ladies who went to these nice but sometimes odd places, on their weird customs and phrases. Ask me if the men in our dorms were allowed to move horizontally, vertically, or both… \*\* Please _do_ start that thread - that last phrase certainly caught my attention. Inquiring minds… MPSIMP? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/8 "2000-11-05T21:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McKenna \* > **I think there’s probably Seven Sisters for the South and/or Western older women’s colleges, and a Catholic system for ones like Emmanuel and Regis.** My school is one of the “Seven Southern Sisters”, but I couldn’t tell you what the other six are. I think they did tell us at orientation that none of the Southern Sisters had ‘gone under’, unlike those Yankee schools. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/9 "2000-11-06T17:48:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McKenna \* > **were basically the female Ivy League.** Yeah, yeah, got that. I think it was clear in the OP that I understood that concept. So who decided which seven were going to be the Seven Sisters? There were certainly more than seven high-quality women-only colleges in the Northeast. Since Radcliffe is basically defunct (women get honest-to-god Harvard degrees now) is Sarah Lawrence considered to have joined the ranks? Does Barnard still exist, or have its people been consumed by Columbia by now? Are there really other Seven Sisterses in the South and West? That seems odd; there’s no “Ivy League of California.” ---
**Author:** ![Fillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Fillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fillet)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/10 "2000-11-06T17:57:34Z")
Don’t know about the others, but Barnard is still an entity unto itself within the Columbia U system. The co-ed part of Columbia U is Columbia College. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/11 "2000-11-06T18:35:20Z")
So if I were an 18-year-old female applicant, I could go to either Columbia or Barnard…but if I were an 18-year old MALE applicant, my choice would be limited to Columbia? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/12 "2000-11-06T18:46:11Z")
I’ve always heard that the Ivy league was a rather late invention, coming in the age of college sports, football in particular, and not based in the ancient past. One potential UL I’ve heard is that the four original football schools (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and ?) formed the IV (4) league teams. Any help with this one? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/13 "2000-11-06T19:06:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > **Ah. The Pleiades, you say?** Alcyone Asterope Celeno Electra Maia Merope Taygete [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/14 "2000-11-06T19:11:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > **I get the concept of the Ivy League. It’s a football grouping** Sheesh. Is my OP so DEADLY DULL that people aren’t reading it? (Sorry **Telemark** …I’m not usually this testy. Oh, and the first American intercollegiate football match was between Princeton and Rutgers…Rutgers is not in the Ivy football conference.) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/15 "2000-11-06T19:19:40Z")
**Telmark** is correct, the IV league got the name from four schools who agreed to a rather stringent set of academic standards for sports participation. Some folks are getting a bit peeved at Penn for lowering some of their standards. **Uke** is right too, in that males and females can apply to Columbia, but only females can apply to Barnard. Nothing is lost though… as a male student you can take courses at Barnard (woo hoo… someday I’ll tell you about the yoga class I took there 😃 ) and vice versa, but it is generally (note I said generally, of course there are exceptions) accepted on both campuses that it is a bit better to have the Columbia name on your diploma. Sorry I can’t be more help with the OP. Were the seven associated with a smaller Ivy league? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/16 "2000-11-06T19:43:57Z")
Ahh, our good friend [Britanica.com](http://www.britanica.com)! After seeing **Uke** stress out in his search for an answer, I popped ’ “seven sisters” athletic history ’ into the search box, and found this: The [result](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/9/0,5716,138359+1+126065,00.html?query=seven%20sisters%20athletic): > [@](#): > > Seven Sisters > > Formally SEVEN COLLEGES CONFERENCE consortium of seven highly prestigious private institutions of higher education in the northeastern United States. Its members include Barnard (affiliated with Columbia University), Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Radcliffe (part of Harvard University), Smith, Vassar, and Wellesley colleges. > > The consortium traces its origins to a conference held at Vassar College in 1915. The participants–which included Vassar, Mount Holyoke, Smith, and Wellesley–discussed ways of improving their fund-raising efforts. A second conference at Bryn Mawr in 1925 was followed by conferences at Barnard and Radcliffe in 1926; by then the name Seven Sisters had become associated with the group. In addition to seeking financial contributions, the schools now discuss admissions criteria, academic standards, and common goals. At the time of the consortium’s inception, all of its members were women’s colleges; two schools–Radcliffe and Vassar–have since become coeducational. The consortium traces its origins to a conference held at Vassar College in 1915. The participants–which included Vassar, Mount Holyoke, Smith, and Wellesley–discussed ways of improving their fund-raising efforts. A second conference at Bryn Mawr in 1925 was followed by conferences at Barnard and Radcliffe in 1926; by then the name Seven Sisters had become associated with the group. In addition to seeking financial contributions, the schools now discuss admissions criteria, academic standards, and common goals. At the time of the consortium’s inception, all of its members were women’s colleges; two schools–Radcliffe and Vassar–have since become coeducational. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/17 "2000-11-06T20:03:38Z")
Note: I believe that Bryn Mawr now hosts a small nucleus of very busy token males, despite their long-standing partnership with Haverford. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/18 "2000-11-06T20:11:55Z")
You beat me to it, **Rhythmdvl**! I was going to make a beeline to EB myself with the hopes of for once being able to look smarter than Ukulele Ike. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/19 "2000-11-06T20:24:59Z")
Nope, I was wrong. My Bryn Mawr pal just explained to me that while there are male graduate students, there are no male undergrads, officially. However, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, and Swarthmore pool their resources and exchange students between programs. One effect of this resource pooling is that a small cadre of male Haverford students live on the Bryn Mawr campus, and many of them take courses at Bryn Mawr. The somewhat-less-than-obvious reasons for Haverford men to want to live at Bryn Mawr include much swankier housing, way better food, and proximity to courses offered on that campus. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2000, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775/20 "2000-11-06T20:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > **the hopes of for once being able to look smarter than Ukulele Ike.** Harrumph. Words fail me. Thank you, **Rhythm!** Very informative link, there. As for your question about a “smaller Ivy League,” there IS an informal (or possibly formal?) grouping of the smaller elite Northeast colleges…Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Wesleyan, Swarthmore, etc…known as the “little Ivies,” or, more cutely, as the “potted Ivies.” Now we can all sit back and wait for **McKenna** and **Lamia** to give us the scoop on the Lingerie Happy Hours and all-girl naked volleyball games. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-sisters/39775.md?page=2)