# Seven underage kids killed in car crash - Grandfather dies later when he finds out **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733 "2006-01-26T18:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/1 "2006-01-26T18:57:34Z")
[CNN story](http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/bus.crash/index.html) I have only one question: why were these children allowed to be out on the road without an adult? It is illegal for a 15-yr-old to drive without one. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/2 "2006-01-26T19:10:01Z")
Isn’t it kind of irrelevant? The accident wasn’t even the kid’s fault. > [@](#): > > “It’s my understanding she did not cause the accident,” Tina Mann said of her niece. “The same thing would have happened had there been an adult in the car with her. We’d just have one more death in the family.” > > The accident occurred shortly after 3 p.m. four miles south of Lake Butler. At the time, all three vehicles – the tractor-trailer, the car and the bus – were heading north, said Lt. Bill Leeper of the Florida Highway Patrol. > > “Basically he just wasn’t paying attention, couldn’t slow down in time and just ran into the back of the other vehicle,” Leeper said. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/3 "2006-01-26T19:12:17Z")
Who cares if the driver was 15 or 50. They got rear-ended by a cargo train on wheels. If you have a stopped bus in front of you and 40 tons bareeling in behing you, no amount of driving experience is gonna save yer ass. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/4 "2006-01-26T19:13:49Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > Isn’t it kind of irrelevant? The accident wasn’t even the kid’s fault. As far as the accident is concerned, no. I think it negligent to allowed an underaged driver to be on the road by herself, much less with six youner children. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/5 "2006-01-26T19:14:10Z")
Whos says they _were_ “allowed” out on the road? It’s not unprecedented for kids of that age to sneak out behind their parents’ backs and do things they’re not “allowed” to do. In any case, it appears to be immaterial to the root cause of the accident: > [@](#): > > The fact that the 15-year-old Cynthia Mann was driving the car was not relevant “to the actual crash,” Leeper said. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/6 "2006-01-26T19:14:58Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > [CNN story](http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/bus.crash/index.html) > I have only one question: why were these children allowed to be out on the road without an adult? It is illegal for a 15-yr-old to drive without one. It says in your link that it is illegal. Then it says: > [@](#): > > “It’s my understanding she did not cause the accident,” Tina Mann said of her niece. “The same thing would have happened had there been an adult in the car with her. We’d just have one more death in the family.” The Cop said about the truck who did cause the accident: > [@](#): > > “Basically he just wasn’t paying attention, couldn’t slow down in time and just ran into the back of the other vehicle,” Leeper said. Jim And on preview I see I am late. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/7 "2006-01-26T19:17:08Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Who cares if the driver was 15 or 50. They got rear-ended by a cargo train on wheels. If you have a stopped bus in front of you and 40 tons bareeling in behing you, no amount of driving experience is gonna save yer ass. Her abilities are not in question. That carload of kids _shouldn’t have been there at all._ ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/8 "2006-01-26T19:23:19Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I have only one question: why were these children allowed to be out on the road without an adult? It is illegal for a 15-yr-old to drive without one. I work with a lady who knows the parents. I asked her about that, and she shrugged and said, “It’s a small town. Lots of the kids drive before they get their license.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/9 "2006-01-26T19:23:44Z")
Question: If the car hadn’t been there, would the semi have hit the bus instead? Otherwise, I agree with those who observe that if the girl wasn’t driving illegally, she wouldn’t have been there to get killed. Doesn’t make it any less of a tragedy, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/10 "2006-01-26T19:23:54Z")
The article said the driver of the truck had some prior dings on his record, including two citations for operating a vehicle not is safe condition(2000 and 2001) and had once had his license suspended and was cited when he drove anyway. I wonder if the truck driver is being watched as a suicide risk? He’s not in custody, yet, and he might take the easy way out. The car had no chance, no matter who was driving. But a teenage friend of the 15-yr old said she drove “all the time” Were the parents unaware of that? It’s all so sad. Seven kids and one adult to bury, in one family. That’s rough. I hope the remaining family can bear up, I can’t imagine the pain. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/11 "2006-01-26T19:27:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Otherwise, I agree with those who observe that if the girl wasn’t driving illegally, she wouldn’t have been there to get killed… It is not possible to state this with certainty. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that this accident would have occurred even with an adult present in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/12 "2006-01-26T19:31:19Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I think it negligent to allowed an underaged driver to be on the road by herself, much less with six youner children. OK, so let’s go with your assertion and say that the parents have committed some form of negligence. What sort of further punishment beyond the deaths of seven of their children (and their grandfather) do you suggest? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/13 "2006-01-26T19:33:37Z")
What **Q.E.D.** said. It sounds like anyone in that car was likely to have been killed, regardless of the age of the driver, _particularly_ as the car was not at fault. Why do I get the feeling that this post is yet another case of ‘evil parents unfit to raise children’ sentament that seems to creep up any time any child is in a remotely dangerous situation. ( **Mr. Blue Sky** , that’s not a direct jab at you, but more of an observation about many folks’ reactions to things here on the boards and IRL). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/14 "2006-01-26T19:42:52Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > OK, so let’s go with your assertion and say that the parents have committed some form of negligence. What sort of further punishment beyond the deaths of seven of their children (and their grandfather) do you suggest? I’m not suggesting any punishment. What could be worse that what happened? It shouldn’t just be swept under the rug, is what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter that “other kids do it, too”. When kids who drive illegally get killed, THEN everybody wants the law to do something. The laws are already in place to try and prevent kids FROM being killed. In Georgia, it would have been illegal for her to transport those other kids even if she was 16, for example. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/15 "2006-01-26T19:43:01Z")
Kids sneak out on their own to go joyriding with a 3 year old and a 20 month old in the car? Before heading home to go to church? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/16 "2006-01-26T19:48:50Z")
> [@McNew](#): > > Kids sneak out on their own to go joyriding with a 3 year old and a 20 month old in the car? Before heading home to go to church? :dubious: The fifteen year old was driving the others home from school. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/17 "2006-01-26T19:50:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Initial estimates show Wilkerson’s truck traveling between 50 mph and 65 mph when it struck the Manns’ car, police said. > > The tractor-trailer left no skid marks, police told CNN Thursday. But there were marks on the road indicating Wilkerson veered away only after the initial impact. The guy was basically asleep at the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/18 "2006-01-26T19:51:13Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > I work with a lady who knows the parents. I asked her about that, and she shrugged and said, “It’s a small town. Lots of the kids drive before they get their license.” This is common practice in many small towns in the south (probably everywhere else, too). I cannot imagine the pain this poor woman is going through. Utterly horrendous. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/19 "2006-01-26T19:53:55Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Her abilities are not in question. That carload of kids _shouldn’t have been there at all._ I disagree. The driver had dropped one kid off and was on her way home prior to going to church. I agree that there should have been a licensed driver behind the wheel, but that does not change the fact that the carload of kids was where was supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/20 "2006-01-26T19:55:29Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > > [@McNew](#): > > > > Kids sneak out on their own to go joyriding with a 3 year old and a 20 month old in the car? Before heading home to go to church? > > The fifteen year old was driving the others home from school. The **New McDonald’s item** was replaying to **Q.E.D.** (post #5). > [@Kalhoun](#): > > This is common practice in many small towns in the south (probably everywhere else, too). I cannot imagine the pain this poor woman is going through. Utterly horrendous. I grew up in a small Midwest town. Pretty much all my siblings drove at a young age, but not without an adult in the car. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733.md?page=2)