# Seven underage kids killed in car crash - Grandfather dies later when he finds out **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733 "2006-01-26T18:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/81 "2006-01-26T22:41:57Z")
I simply do not think it is terribly inappropriate for a 15 year old to be driving. Yes it is illegal etc. but it hardly borders on bad parenting, child neglect or anything like that. I suppose Mr. Blue Sky would blame a parent for letting their kid go to an R-rated movie and who died when the theater goes up in flame. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/82 "2006-01-26T22:48:36Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I simply do not think it is terribly inappropriate for a 15 year old to be driving. Yes it is illegal etc. but it hardly borders on bad parenting, child neglect or anything like that. Inappropriate or not, it’s still illegal. Allowing your child to break the law because you may/may not agree with isn’t exactly good parenting. > [@](#): > > I suppose Mr. Blue Sky would blame a parent for letting their kid go to an R-rated movie and who died when the theater goes up in flame. Uh, yeah. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/83 "2006-01-26T22:50:54Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > If they had not gotten in the car and gotten on the road then it would be impossible for them to be at the scene of the accident. How can this work any other way? Simple: Scenario #1: > [@](#): > > 2:45 PM - > **Daughter** : “Mom, it’s time to go get the kids from school and take me to Stephanie’s house. Can I drive?” > > **Mom** : “I’m getting supper ready. Sure, the keys are on the table. Be careful!” Scenario #2: > [@](#): > > 2:45 PM - > **Daughter** : “Mom, it’s time to go get the kids from school and take me to Stephanie’s house. Can I drive?” > > **Mom** : “No, you’re not old enough. I’ll take you now. Let’s go.” See? Same schedule, same kids in the car, most likely the same route. But this time Mom is driving. Now we’ve got seven dead kids AND one dead Mom. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/84 "2006-01-26T22:52:51Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > [CNN story](http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/bus.crash/index.html) > I have only one question: why were these children allowed to be out on the road without an adult? It is illegal for a 15-yr-old to drive without one. I guess I don’t understand why you’ve started a Pit thread when you don’t even know the answer to the question you consider so controversial. I’m not trying to take a swipe at you – I sincerely don’t understand where you’re coming from. Since you’re presumably angry at someone in this circumstance, who do you accuse of having done wrong? Is there an answer to your question that you would consider a reasonable explanation of the circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/85 "2006-01-26T22:53:33Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > See? Same schedule, same kids in the car, most likely the same route. But this time Mom is driving. Now we’ve got seven dead kids AND one dead Mom. Scenario #3: Hey, Mom’s not here. I guess we’ll have to wait until she gets home. See? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/86 "2006-01-26T22:53:54Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > It’d be a tragedy no matter what, but if they had waited for an adult to take them home, it would be likely they’d be alive right now. And what kind of super-powers do adults have in the Blue Sky Universe that they can save themselves and their passengers when they are rear ended by a tractor trailers? :wally Just MHO, but I think that many in this thread are unaware of how lax driving “laws” are enforced in rural areas of the US. Such laws can make perfect sense in an urban environment, in a town of 1900 maybe not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/87 "2006-01-26T22:58:29Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I guess I don’t understand why you’ve started a Pit thread when you don’t even know the answer to the question you consider so controversial. I’m not trying to take a swipe at you – I sincerely don’t understand where you’re coming from. Since you’re presumably angry at someone in this circumstance, who do you accuse of having done wrong? > > Is there an answer to your question that you would consider a reasonable explanation of the circumstances? I put it in the Pit because I figured it would go down the “irresponsible parenting” path. Guess not. If I’d put it in MPSIMS, it would’ve ended up here anyway, so I saved the Mods the effort. Really, the only person who can answer my question would be the mother and I don’t look for her to even be able to think, much less answer the question (not to me specifically, of course). I feel that she will ultimately have to answer the question to someone, probably the state of Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/88 "2006-01-26T22:58:46Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Scenario #3: Hey, Mom’s not here. I guess we’ll have to wait until she gets home. Indeed. Now, tell me, why do you believe your scenario #3 more likely than my scenario #2? The point of _my_ post was to demonstrate how it could have been possible for an adult to have been driving and STILL had the same accident. I’m not sure what the point of yours was. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/89 "2006-01-26T23:00:29Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > And what kind of super-powers do adults have in the Blue Sky Universe that they can save themselves and their passengers when they are rear ended by a tractor trailers? :wally Thanks for reading the thread and getting the point. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Just MHO, but I think that many in this thread are unaware of how lax driving “laws” are enforced in rural areas of the US. Such laws can make perfect sense in an urban environment, in a town of 1900 maybe not so much. True enough. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/90 "2006-01-26T23:00:32Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Scenario #3: Hey, Mom’s not here. I guess we’ll have to wait until she gets home. > > See? that’s **one** version. the others are equally as plausible. if any ONE fucking thing had been different, the car wouldn’t have been there to get hit: 1. one of the kids falls while going to the car, scrapes knee, takes a few minutes to get them all settled and in the car. 2. drive 5 MPH slower. 3. Drive 5 MPH faster 4. Miss turn and get lost 5. Truck driver stops for pee break. 6. Funeral procession interferes w/flow of traffic 7. 15 year old suddenly gets her period and has to fumble in the bathroom 8. 15 year old spends a few moments flirting w/boyfriend 9. Other driver on the road hits them first with minor fender bender. etc etc etc etc there’s’s any number of things that if it had happened that way would have changed the results. that’s why they’re called **accidents** ya know? you seem to be focused on exactly one fucking **irrelevant** detail that went into the tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/91 "2006-01-26T23:04:44Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Indeed. Now, tell me, why do you believe your scenario #3 more likely than my scenario #2? The point of _my_ post was to demonstrate how it could have been possible for an adult to have been driving and STILL had the same accident. I’m not sure what the point of yours was. I’m not saying my scenario is more or less likely than yours. Just different. ---
**Author:** ![Capa84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8edcca/32.png) [@Capa84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capa84)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/92 "2006-01-26T23:04:46Z")
This has been all over the local news (it’s about an hour or so from here). Today, they reported that the bus travelled 200 feet AFTER the impact, doing a 180 degree slide, to end up facing the opposite direction of the impact. I’m trying to visualize this accident, and I can’t see any way that car(not a van, as originally reported) slowed the truck down very much. I guess you can assume that since the bus was unloading passengers, that the driver’s foot was on the clutch…however that is still one heck of an impact to push a bus that is basically sitting in neutral over 200 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/93 "2006-01-26T23:06:27Z")
> [@wring](#): > > you seem to be focused on exactly one fucking **irrelevant** detail that went into the tragedy. Oh, I get it now. I’m not supposed to be curious about stuff. Well, thank you very much, I’m all straightened out now. :wally ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/94 "2006-01-26T23:07:21Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Scenario #3: Hey, Mom’s not here. I guess we’ll have to wait until she gets home. > > See? I’ll call your late Mom and raise with: Mom’s on time and now she’s dead too. So I guess you’re pitting the Mom here in an oblique sort of way given your next post too: > [@](#): > > Really, the only person who can answer my question would be the mother and I don’t look for her to even be able to think, much less answer the question (not to me specifically, of course). I feel that she will ultimately have to answer the question to someone, probably the state of Florida. ps: I did read the thread, but I did not preview before you posted the first quote above. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/95 "2006-01-26T23:08:23Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I’m not saying my scenario is more or less likely than yours. Just different. Ok, so what’s your point? My point was to plausibly demonstrate that the accident could just as easily have occurred with a licensed adult behind the wheel. Do you persist in disputing this? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/96 "2006-01-26T23:08:26Z")
> [@Capa84](#): > > I’m trying to visualize this accident, and I can’t see any way that car(not a van, as originally reported) slowed the truck down very much. I guess you can assume that since the bus was unloading passengers, that the driver’s foot was on the clutch…however that is still one heck of an impact to push a bus that is basically sitting in neutral over 200 feet. One report says there were no skid marks, but there was an indication that the driver tried to swerve at the last minute. He must having been going the speed limit or faster. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/97 "2006-01-26T23:10:25Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Ok, so what’s your point? My point was to plausibly demonstrate that the accident could just as easily have occurred with a licensed adult behind the wheel. Do you persist in disputing this? I do not despute your scenarios, but my point is that the option to not drive was there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/98 "2006-01-26T23:11:38Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I feel that she will ultimately have to answer the question to someone, probably the state of Florida. You’re right. I’m sure the local police will be quite diligent about issuing the ticket. What’s the fine for underage driving in Florida? $200? $300? ---
**Author:** ![Kitchen\_Wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@Kitchen\_Wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kitchen_Wench)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/99 "2006-01-26T23:13:07Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I simply do not think it is terribly inappropriate for a 15 year old to be driving. Yes it is illegal etc. but it hardly borders on bad parenting, child neglect or anything like that. Bingo. It’s not like the girl was say, 12. She was 15 and had a permit. She knew the rules of the road well enough to get that permit. And she was taking the kids home from school. Before church. That sounds like responsible behavior to me. If her parents had allowed her to make such a journey, that says they trust her to make the trip safely and responsibly. Which she did, apparently. I could have been that girl. I started driving long before I was old enough to get my license and was such a responsible and careful driver that I was allowed to run a couple errands at 15. No one would have ever given me a second glance because I was so close to the legal driving age. Plus, you have into account that rural communities may not be as stringent on “by the book” driving laws. It may be perfectly acceptable to the sherrif for that girl driving, even with all those kids. Jesus Christ, Mr Blue Sky, I just don’t get why you’re so bent out of shape over her age/licence status. Direct your anger at the driver. Upon preview: all my points have already been made. So, I’ll just agree with those other guys. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733/100 "2006-01-26T23:13:46Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I do not despute your scenarios, but my point is that the option to not drive was there. same w/the fucking truck driver, who ya know, ' **was** actually responsible for the deaths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seven-underage-kids-killed-in-car-crash-grandfather-dies-later-when-he-finds-out/341733.md?page=6)