# Seventeen amendments in the Bill of Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2000, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628 "2000-07-15T02:48:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/1 "2000-07-15T02:48:43Z")
A week or two ago, I saw on Jeopardy that the House of Representatives voted to propose 17 amendments as part of the Bill of Rights but that the Senate went along with only 12 of them. Ten were ratified early on and became the Bill of Rights. One was ratified 203 years after being proposed and became the 27th Amendment. One is yet to be ratified (and almost certainly won’t be). I have found the texts of the [six amendments proposed over the years by both houses but that were never ratified by the states](http://usgovinfo.miningco.com/newsissues/usgovinfo/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amendnotrat.html). However, I have had no luck tracking down the texts of the 5 that were proposed by the House of Representatives along with what became the Bill of Rights. Does anybody know what they dealt with? ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/2 "2000-07-15T03:11:25Z")
All that I can add here is that the most recent, the 27th Amendment, was initially called the first amendment and what we call the First Ammendment was actually the third. Then, back in 1990 or something, the 27th(1st) Ammendment was ratified. It basically prohibits congress from voting for a pay raise to take effect before an election. Already, this Ammendment HAS been violated; "Congress voted last July 15 to accept a 3.4 percent salary increase, effective January 1, regardless of the 27th Amendment’s requirement that compensation changes commence after “an election of Representatives shall have intervened.” Congressmen feathered their beds by dubbing this unconstitutional pay hike a “cost-of-living adjustment.” The media and masses snored right through this shakedown. " ([http://www.cato.org/dailys/06-30-00.html](http://www.cato.org/dailys/06-30-00.html)) ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/3 "2000-07-15T03:52:43Z")
**bibliophage** : I am interested but that link does not want to work for me. Here is a quote concerning the 27th amendment that seems to contradict part of your post: > [@](#): > > \*This amendment, being the second of twelve articles proposed by the First Congress on Sept. 25, 1789, was declared by the Archivist of the United States on May 18, 1992, to have been ratified by the legislatures of 40 of the 50 States. \* The quote is from [this site](http://www.mv.com/users/sos/Constitution.html). But they claim to get the info from the same source as your link [http://www.house.gov](http://www.house.gov) ( Congress ) ---
**Author:** ![dorkbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@dorkbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkbro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/4 "2000-07-15T04:56:07Z")
Well, this is only close. I was able to find a site that went through James Madison’s initial presentation to the House of suggestions for amendments. I would guess that the 17 amendments ratified by the House looked something like this (where there is an obvious correlation with the amendments that were adopted, I have put that in parentheses) 1. Power of US gov’t is vested in and derived from the people 2. Further limits on the number of Reps. (mostly to insure that there would be enough representatives) 3. Members of Congress could not change their own pay without an intervening election (27th amdment) 4. Religious freedom (1st amdmt.) 5. Speech and Press (1st) 6. Assembly (1st) 7. Keep and bear arms (2nd) INCLUDING a clause that would recognize conscientious objection (1st?) 8. No quartering of troops (3rd) 9. Rights of accused/convicted: No double jeopardy, self-incrimination, due process, no loss of property w/out compensation (5th) 10. No excessive bail, fines, nor cruel & unusual punishment (8th) 11. Search & seizure limits (4th) 12. Speedy trial, confrontation of accusers, right to atty., etc.(6th) 13. Rights retained by people (9th) 14. States cannot limit rights of conscience, press, or trial by jury 15. Limits on appeals - jury as final authority on fact (7th) 16. Trial by jury / indictment by grand jury (5/6) 17. Reinforcement of separation of powers. - reservation of state’s rts. (10th) (The site where I found this is [http://www.jmu.edu/madison/madprobll.htm](http://www.jmu.edu/madison/madprobll.htm) ) These may vary from those ultimately adopted by the House for the obvious reason that amendments were certainly possible. In addition, since these were the first amendments to be proposed, there was some question about how to accomplish them. Madison’s orignal proposal included language identifying where to cut and change language in the original Constitution. However, others in the House wanted to make the amendments “add-ons”, and Madison acceeded to this (apparently because it swayed some critical votes.) That means that the original proposal doesn’t break down into 17 parts - Madison presented it as 8 parts (with a ninth part that would renumber sections appropriately). I tried pulling out items, and happily came up with 17 - but that might have been pure chance. There is a book entitled Creating the Bill of Rights : The Documentary Record from the First Federal Congress (ISBN 0801841003) which might have better information - but I am not in a library right now, so I can’t say for sure. (I have seen some indications that the item about the number of members of the House actually was first on the list ultimately ratified by Congress, and the one ultimately adopted as the 27th amendment was the second on the list. Lets pick those nits, huh?) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/5 "2000-07-15T05:31:17Z")
Excellent first post, **dorkbro**. Very helpful. Welcome to the SDMB. You will be an asset around here, I can see. Sorry about the broken link, **2sense**. Try [http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst/notamend.html](http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst/notamend.html) or [http://majoritywhip.house.gov/constitution/Related-Topics/amendnot.htm](http://majoritywhip.house.gov/constitution/Related-Topics/amendnot.htm) The 6 dealt with[ul] 1. regulating the number of congressmen [1789] 2. revoking US citizenship for those who accept foreign titles [circa 1791] 3. prohibiting the banning of slavery [1861] 4. giving congress the right to ban child labor [1926] 5. giving equal rights to women [1971-72] 6. granting congressional representation for the District of Columbia [1978][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/6 "2000-07-15T06:19:22Z")
According to books, I have on the adoption of the Bill of Rights, Madison got the House to approve 17 amendments. Madison wrote his amendments so that they could be mixed in with the existing Constitution instead of tacked on at the end. When they got to the Senate, two were rejected outright , one of which would have required that no state government infringe on the rights of an individual (had to wait for the 14th Amendment for that), and six pairs of articles were combined to make three amendments. This then leaves 12 amendments to vote on. The narrative I have doesn’t delineate what parts were combined, but it does say that the 1st and 5th Amendments are pasteups. If you can roundup a copy of the Congressional Record for 1789, you can probably get all the details. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2000, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/7 "2000-07-17T05:45:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*If you can roundup a copy of the Congressional Record for 1789, you can probably get all the details. \*\* Excellent suggestion. Here is [Journal of the House (8/21/1789)](http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hlaw:1:./temp/~ammem_P0Ea::) > [@](#): > > [ul]1. After the first enumeration, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred; after which, the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which, the proportion shall be so regulated, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons. > 2. No law varying the compensation of the members to Congress shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened. > 3. Congress shall make no law establishing religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, nor shall the rights of conscience be infringed. > 4. The freedom of speech, and of the press, and the right of the People peaceably to assemble and consult for their common good, and to apply to the Government for redress of grievances, shall not be infringed. > 5. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the People, being the best security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person. > 6. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. > 7. No person shall be subject, except in case of impeachment, to more than one or one punishment for the same offence; nor shall be compelled, in any criminal case, to be witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. > 8. Excessive bail shall not be required; nor excessive fines imposed; nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. > 9. The right of the People to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. > 10. The enumeration in this Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the People. > 11. No State shall infringe the right of trial by jury in criminal cases; nor the rights of conscience; nor the freedom of speech or of the press. > 12. No appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States shall be allowed, where the value in controversy shall not amount to one thousand dollars; nor shall any fact, triable by a jury according to the course of the common law, be otherwise re-examinable than according to the rules of common law. > 13. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial; to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence. > 14. The trial of all crimes, (except in cases of impeachment, and in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia when in actual service in time of war or public danger,) shall be by an impartial jury of the vicinage, with the requisite of unanimity for conviction, the right of challenge, and other accustomed requisites; and no person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment by a grand jury; but if a crime be committed in a place in the possession of an enemy, or in which an insurrection may prevail, the indictment and trial may by law be authorized in some other place within the same State. > 15. In suits at common law, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved. > 16. The powers delegated by the Constitution to the Government of the United States, shall be exercised as therein appropriated, so that the Legislative shall never exercise the powers vested in the Executive or Judicial; nor the Executive the powers vested in the legislative or Judicial; nor the Judicial the powers vested in the Legislative or Executive. > The 17th article, in the words following, to wit: “The powers not delegated by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,” being under debate, a motion was made, and the question being put to amend the same by inserting after the word “not,” the word “expressly.” > [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2000, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventeen-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights/25628/8 "2000-07-17T06:04:58Z")
Bibliophage, Glad you found the Journal of the House on the Web. I would hate to know that you had a copy of it at home. The text of the first attempt at our present 2nd amendment would make interesting fodder for Great Debates. The Senate Journal is also available online from the same site and you can see how the Senators (and there weren’t many of them there) voted on changing them around. One Senator proposed adding the guarantees of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” into the Bill of Rights.