# Seventy bodies delivered to Baghdad morgue in six hours, many tortured and executed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733 "2006-05-14T14:11:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/61 "2006-05-17T15:56:42Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Then flame me, I don’t give a toss, but if you’re trying to goad me, then do it in the pit. He’s not the only person who’s in Baghdad or Iraq that I’ve spoken to. Bill Roggio has been an embed. I’ve asked him alot of questions about the situation there via Email, it’s all about perspective, sure, Madmonk might regard the situation as untenable, or a disaster, but just because he’s in Baghdad doesn’t mean I’m going to take his word as the be all and end all. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but I’m predicting you’ll actually dismiss his word because it doesn’t agree with your “perspective”. We’ll see. Watching the gymnastics should be entertaining. When one disagrees with the other, I wonder which way you’ll jump? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/62 "2006-05-17T19:41:30Z")
Spread the joys of occupation and democracy: [**Basra carnage escalates as one person killed every hour**](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article485489.ece) > [@](#): > > One person is being assassinated in Basra every hour, as order in Iraq’s second city disintegrates, according to an Iraqi Defence Ministry official. > > And a quarter of all Iraqi children suffer from malnutrition, a survey of 20,000 households by the Iraqi government and Unicef says. > > The number of violent killings in Basra is now at a level close to that of Baghdad, and marks the failure of the British Army’s three-year attempt to quell violence there. Police no longer dare go to the site of a murder because they fear being attacked. The governor of Basra, Mohammed Misbahal-Wa’ili, is trying to sack the city’s police chief, claiming that the police have not carried out a single investigation into hundreds of recent assassinations. > > The collapse of government authority in Iraq is increasing at every level and leaders in Baghdad have yet to form a cabinet, five months after parliamentary elections on 15 December. > > Insurgent attacks on American and British troops are also proving more lethal, with 44 US soldiers and seven British killed so far this month, and with daily losses exceeding anything seen for more than a year. Much more at source. Then again, surely the writer is not in Iraq either.. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/63 "2006-05-17T21:14:50Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Yeah, but I’m predicting you’ll actually dismiss his word because it doesn’t agree with your “perspective”. We’ll see. Watching the gymnastics should be entertaining. When one disagrees with the other, I wonder which way you’ll jump? -Joe [/QUOTE] Such wit and insight, your parents must be proud. I will not dismiss his word, I actually admire him for being there. However, him being there doesn’t stop me from questioning his opinions, his viewpoints. > [@](#): > > Spread the joys of occupation and democracy: All the more reason not to pull out immediately. > [@](#): > > Much more at source. Then again, surely the writer is not in Iraq either.. Madmonk is in Iraq, Madmonk has experienced alot more about Iraq than I have, I have my views on Iraq, which somehow culminates in some people telling me how I shouldn’t challenge his viewpoints, because he is in that country. Which = No debate, no way in which to offer a different one without countless accusations of being ‘Armchair Liam’ As someone so eloquently described it, which means nothing I want to debate about is really discussed. If certain types want to complain about me, do it in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/64 "2006-05-17T21:52:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Such wit and insight, your parents must be proud. I will not dismiss his word, I actually admire him for being there. However, him being there doesn’t stop me from questioning his opinions, his viewpoints. [/QUOTE] Content rating: Zero. I’m sure your mommy must be proud as well. I’ve got nothing else to say to you until it’s time to point and laugh regarding your future evasions. Remember to turn off any filters that would keep you from getting a .jpg! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/65 "2006-05-17T22:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Content rating: Zero. > > I’m sure your mommy must be proud as well. I’ve got nothing else to say to you until it’s time to point and laugh regarding your future evasions. Put me in a thread in the BBQ pit, if you’re more intelligent witty thoughtful etc etc than I am. But if you cannot, then don’t bother trying to flame me here, especially with weak ass rants which culiminate with ‘your mom’ Merijeek you can do better than that 🙂 > [@](#): > > Remember to turn off any filters that would keep you from getting a .jpg! > > -Joe I’ll be sure to remember that 😉 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/66 "2006-05-18T08:07:23Z")
Okay, so I sent two batches of pictures to **Ryan\_Liam** from Baghdad. I took them on the roof of my compound around sundown. They are pictures of the Baghdad skyline. In one you can see two blackhawks in the distance on patrol. I also took closeups of my entrance and exit stamps from my passprt. I took them with my cell phone so the pics aren’t great. I’m in Amman today and leave for 2 weeks vacation in the states, so I probably won’t be on the SDMB for a few days while I eat/sleep/be with my wife; lather rinse repeat. You know, the people I talk to who are really sure about how things are in Iraq are the ones who are farthest away. The situation here is like a Seurat pointillism painting, the closer you stand to it, the less clear it is. I do think that things are pretty horrible in Baghdad and much of it should have been anticipated and could have been prevented. What signs of hope I see for the country are in the Iraqi people I know. I work with some amazing Iraqis. They are truly dedicated to making their country a better place and they risk their lives to do it. If Iraq is able to pull it out of the fire, it will be because of the quiet dignity of decent people like them trying their hardest to do the right thing. And it won’t be because of the ill-advised and poorly executed invasion of G. W. Bush, but in spite of it. At this point, no one in Baghdad is seriously talking about democracy, or at least not any kind of democracy people in the west would recognize. The question isn’t whether Iraq is going to be a democracy, but whether it is going to continue to exist as a state at all. Every day is a little worse than the day before. On my way to the airport yesterday, we drove through a neighborhood I used to live in, in 2003 and I was shocked. It had been a little rough, but viable neighborhood in 2003. We (cautiously) went out to eat in restaraunts, we knew the neighbors. Now the neighborhood is just wrecked. The restaraunt we used to go to is an empty shell, everything is wrecked, everything is in disrepair. I saw little kids, maybe 11 standing on the street corner huffing gasoline on a rag, I’m telling you I never saw anything like that 3 years ago. Never just out in the open. The whole area just seems to have given up. Like I said, I’m going on leave and I’m not going to be on the board for a few days, and maybe for the next couple of weeks. I usually don’t get on line much back in the states, I use the SDMB to get a human connection when I’m far from home. But I’d like to share two stories from my experience here that sum up Iraq for me: One time I was at the Sheraton and two construction workers got into an argument/shoving match about something. The argument was in Arabic, which I don’t speak, so who knows what they were fighting about. This American soldier sees them arguing, unslings his rifle, points it at them and just starts screaming in English “stop fighting! stop fighting!” I remember thinking to myself, “God, what a metaphore for this mess. A guy screaming to stop fighting in a language no one here understands and if they don’t he’ll shoot them.” The other story took place in 2003. I was talking to a US Army captain and he complained that the only news station he could get on his satellite tv was the BBC. I said that I really liked BBC news, what was the problem? He said, “I’m tired of being told how badly things are goind here, I want to be lied to. I want CNN (this is when all the networks were trying to out patriot each other).” I said, “Captain if you want to be lied to, you don’t want CNN, you want Fox News.” He said, “I’m not an idiot, I don’t want to be lied to that much, I just want to be lied to a little bit.” So there you have it, for what it’s worth. See you in a couple of weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/67 "2006-05-18T14:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Put me in a thread in the BBQ pit, if you’re more intelligent witty thoughtful etc etc than I am. But if you cannot, then don’t bother trying to flame me here, especially with weak ass rants which culiminate with ‘your mom’ Merijeek you can do better than that 🙂 [/QUOTE] If you don’t even read your own posts, I can totally understand. [QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Such wit and insight, your parents must be proud. [/quote] -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/68 "2006-05-18T17:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] If you don’t even read your own posts, I can totally understand. -Joe [/QUOTE] Oh I do, and I can see why so many people disagreed with your ample description of anyone who’s not in Iraq and somehow supports it as ‘chickenhawks’ to quote someone who answered your rant [Yeah! And what’s up with those chickenphoenixes who are all gung-ho for fires being put out but somehow never seem to be part of the voluntary fire brigade?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5386746&postcount=36) And to quote **Madmonk** > [@](#): > > You know, the people I talk to who are really sure about how things are in Iraq are the ones who are farthest away. The situation here is like a Seurat pointillism painting, the closer you stand to it, the less clear it is. So there, stfu and add something valuable to the debate about the conflict, what can be done to make progress etc, or don’t bother attacking me unless you’re going to do it in the Pit. I’m still waiting for that thread Merijeek. Put your money where your mouth is. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/69 "2006-05-18T18:55:38Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] Ryan\_Liam, “shut the fuck up” is not allowed as an abbreviation either. Merijeek and Ryan, take the personal stuff to the Pit. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![XaMcQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/f9ae1b/32.png) [@XaMcQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XaMcQ)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/70 "2006-05-18T19:02:20Z")
> [@](#): > > One time I was at the Sheraton and two construction workers got into an argument/shoving match about something. The argument was in Arabic, which I don’t speak, so who knows what they were fighting about. This American soldier sees them arguing, unslings his rifle, points it at them and just starts screaming in English “stop fighting! stop fighting!” I remember thinking to myself, “God, what a metaphore for this mess. A guy screaming to stop fighting in a language no one here understands and if they don’t he’ll shoot them.” Sounds about right. I’ve watched what few reality programs with the troops in Iraq I have been able to find, and my overall impression from the soldiers themselves was a combination of confusion and frustration. I don’t think anybody really understands everything that is going on, but I haven’t seen anything here that heartens me in the least. A drop in suicide bombings replaced by an increase in execution-type killings is not good news. It’s just easier to ignore people being shot in secret, as opposed to being blown up in the streets. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/71 "2006-05-18T19:48:59Z")
So, **Ryan** , what’s your reaction to the photographs? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/72 "2006-05-18T20:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] So, **Ryan** , what’s your reaction to the photographs? [/QUOTE] They’re excellent. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/73 "2006-05-18T21:16:49Z")
Do they say “Ryan’s name woz ere” and stuff? Hopefully **madmonk28** might make them public when he can. But seriously, do you believe he was in Iraq when he took them? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/74 "2006-05-19T13:13:38Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Do they say “Ryan’s name woz ere” and stuff? Hopefully **madmonk28** might make them public when he can. But seriously, do you believe he was in Iraq when he took them? [/QUOTE] Of course! But please, don’t be like Merijeek and start shouting ‘chickenhawk’ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/75 "2006-05-19T19:01:44Z")
[**FEAR, PARALYSIS SEIZE BAGHDAD** The city’s constant killings leave neighborhoods barricaded and many residents running for their lives](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/18/MNG7JITSJC1.DTL) > [@](#): > > Since the bombing Feb. 22 of the Shiite Askariya Shrine in Samarra, Baghdad has descended into a maelstrom of killing that shows little sign of abating. Most of the victims have been taken from their homes and executed, their bodies dumped in residential streets and alleys. > > “I am afraid to go outside, to send my children to play in the street,” said a high school Arabic teacher in Amariya, where bougainvillea vines crawl up stucco walls that surround manicured gardens. **At least 3,500 Iraqis have been killed this year, according to official statistics. In April alone, according to the Health Ministry, 762 people – primarily civilians – were killed in Baghdad. The previous month, the Baghdad morgue received 1,294 bodies, more than double the 596 received in March 2005, according to the New York Times. Most of the victims were shot to death.** As many as 100,000 people have fled their homes in Baghdad. That’s some real progress you’re making there Bubba… ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/76 "2006-05-20T08:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s some real progress you’re making there Bubba… > **[BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq 'finalises unity government'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4999502.stm)** > > Iraq's PM-designate Nouri Maliki says the cabinet has been finalised except for two key posts. It is, considering the country has now got a government representative and elected by the people of Iraq, despite all the bloodshed and violence, is quote something. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/77 "2006-05-20T08:48:56Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] > **[BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq 'finalises unity government'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4999502.stm)** > > Iraq's PM-designate Nouri Maliki says the cabinet has been finalised except for two key posts. It is, considering the country has now got a government representative and elected by the people of Iraq, despite all the bloodshed and violence, is quote something. [/QUOTE] I’m sure the corpses are impressed that we consider them liberated. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/78 "2006-05-20T22:45:57Z")
[**You got your damn war**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13113.htm) > [@](#): > > A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines “killed innocent civilians in cold blood,” a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday. > > From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children. > > One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,” she said, “and shot him.” > > On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true. > > \ > > On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight insurgents, he said. > > U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was wrong. > > **Also known as a stinking lie** > > \ > > The soldiers, regardless of whether they’re ever brought to trial, will be punished forever by the memories of their crimes. There’s no escape; my grandfather told me he had nightmares from World War II every single night, without exception, until the day he died sixty years later. And he was a medic with a clean conscience. > > But the real culprits won’t be punished. There are two damn many of them. > > It’s not just Bush and Cheney and the rest of the madmen who conjured up this war, it’s the Democratic hawks that enabled them. It’s Kerry and Lieberman and all the rest and, yes, even Jack Murtha. > > And it’s the cowardly scumbags who spun their glorious war narrative and convinced a whole bunch of ordinary citizens to jump on board. It’s the Tom Friedmans and the Peter Beinarts – and even some on this very site – who only realized this war was a mistake when it proved to be as disastrous as every other “war of choice.” We told them that war is bloody hell and they called us “pacifists” and “appeasers.” > > **Well there’s your fucking war. It’s not a video game and it’s not glowing green explosions on CNN; it’s “a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead.”** Be proud. Of murdering innocent civilians under the guise of “democracy.” Better yet, eat me raw, balls and all… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/79 "2006-05-20T22:53:39Z")
Say hey, Ryan, have you turned eighteen yet? Surely you know the reason I ask – enough ballsy responses behind the safety of your monitor. How’s about enlisting and putting your actions where your boastful words are? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733/80 "2006-05-21T00:14:46Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] [**You got your damn war**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13113.htm) Be proud. Of murdering innocent civilians under the guise of “democracy.” Better yet, eat me raw, balls and all… [/QUOTE] That sort of stuff should be shown on the nightly news. It should not be covered up, glossed over, or “mitigated” or sanitized. I know the spin, as always, would be that it’s disrespectful to the victims. Just like showing torture photos on the news would be disrespectful, or that cartoon of the mangled soldier would be disrespectful. What is really disrespectful is to allow it to continue. Let’s show the war supporters just what really happens to the troops for a change. Let’s show them just what happens to the victims for a change. War is not some John Wayne movie, where the bad guys just fall over and go to sleep. It’s not some glorious adventure. Yeah, mision accomplished, alright. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-bodies-delivered-to-baghdad-morgue-in-six-hours-many-tortured-and-executed/356733.md?page=5)