# Seventy Years Ago Today.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 6, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154 "2015-08-06T14:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/1 "2015-08-06T14:10:12Z")
On August 6, 1945, for the first time, an atomic weapon was used against humans. ISTM that it is appropriate, no matter whether you feel it was right or wrong, to remember that. Forgive, but never forget. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/2 "2015-08-06T14:47:12Z")
Yes, we should forgive the Japanese for the war, but not forget it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/3 "2015-08-06T16:19:33Z")
The Japanese knew (by 1944) that they were going to lose. Instead of surrendering, they kept fighting in a suicidal way. The bomb was necessary to end the fanatic’s grip-so it did save lives. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/4 "2015-08-06T16:52:52Z")
Shodan, I agree ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/5 "2015-08-06T22:12:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > ISTM that it is appropriate, no matter whether you feel it was right or wrong, to remember that. Agreed. And I hope it remains the penultimate time. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/6 "2015-08-07T07:27:03Z")
The US had an alternative weapon - poison gas. Tens of thousands of tons of it. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/7 "2015-08-07T12:49:31Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > The US had an alternative weapon - poison gas. Tens of thousands of tons of it. In my opinion that weapon would have taken many more lives than the atom bomb. The Japanese believed in sacrifice of lives. Using gas would take lives and then more people would show up to continue the war effort. Leveling square miles of industrial cities not only took lives it also demonstrated the ability to literally bomb the enemy’s war infrastructure back into the stone age. It was a very harsh message but quite possibly the one that spared the most Japanese and Allied lives. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/8 "2015-08-07T13:20:37Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It was a very harsh message but quite possibly the one that spared the most Japanese and Allied lives. This is the part that so many people seem to have trouble with. Yes, the A-bomb is horrible and horrifying. No one really doubts that. But we HAD to use a horrible and horrifying weapon to get them to surrender. We were already dumping napalm on their cities by the ton and killing them in firestorms but they were still fighting. The Nuke did the same job in a fraction of a second and was such a hammer blow that stunned them into submitting. In a way, it allowed them to “save face” by being so terrible that NO ONE would hold out against it. We’ve had threads before about the possibility of gassing Japan. IIRC, the news was that we did not have enough to be effective. We had _a lot_, but not enough for a full on invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/9 "2015-08-07T13:56:31Z")
I am on record as **supporting** the Hiroshima bombing. But tens of thousands of people died. I don’t think the US should be ashamed, or apologize, or that we should pretend we could have done something else. But tens of thousands of people died. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/10 "2015-08-07T14:47:20Z")
My thought has always been that if we hadn’t used it then, would something worse in terms of the whole planet have happened? Lets face it, develop a weapon and sooner or later someone is going to pull the trigger. So we have the bomb and don’t drop it on Japan; then Russia develops their bomb - and the first time anyone really learns of the horror of the nuclear option is a real exchange over something like the Berlin Airlift or something. I don’t know if it would make the Japanese feel any better about the whole thing but I sometimes think the horror they suffered, and still do to some extent, could have been what kept the Cold War cold. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/11 "2015-08-07T15:04:28Z")
Interesting article [here](http://www.npr.org/2015/08/06/429433621/why-did-the-u-s-choose-hiroshima) (from NPR; you can read or listen) about the decision to drop the bomb on Hiroshima as opposed to using it in some less destructive demonstration. > [@](#): > > The committee settled on two “psychological” objectives of the first atomic bombing: to scare the Japanese into unconditional surrender and to impress upon the world the power of the new weapon. > … > So, they decided this bomb would not just kill — it would do something biblical: One bomb, from one plane, would wipe a city off the map. It would be horrible. **But they wanted it to be horrible, to end the war and to try to stop the future use of nuclear bombs.** (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/12 "2015-08-07T15:47:15Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > My thought has always been that if we hadn’t used it then, would something worse in terms of the whole planet have happened? Lets face it, develop a weapon and sooner or later someone is going to pull the trigger. So we have the bomb and don’t drop it on Japan; then Russia develops their bomb - and the first time anyone really learns of the horror of the nuclear option is a real exchange over something like the Berlin Airlift or something. I don’t know if it would make the Japanese feel any better about the whole thing but I sometimes think the horror they suffered, and still do to some extent, could have been what kept the Cold War cold. That’s how I see it. There is the official line: the destruction wrought by Fat Man and Little Boy are reckoned to be less than what would have been realized had the war continued as it was. But there’s more. Getting nuked and forced into bound-and-naked terms of surrender were probably the best thing to happen to Japan economically & industrially. Possibly even culturally if their ancient sites were at risk of annihilation in a full-scale occupation. Further, the horrors of nukes were fully and immediately realized and efforts were in place very early on to restrict access to the means of their production. Sure, they proliferated and some are in very shaky hands now, but the fact remains, only two were ever detonated in aggression. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/13 "2015-08-07T16:16:24Z")
What the hell is it with Americnas and their obscene views on “saving lives”, by bombing? :rolleyes: Doctors and paramedics save lives, not bomber pilots. Dropping the bomb was the absolute right thing to do. It was war. The Japanese were the enemy. The enemy had to be defeated and all resources to that end should and must have been employed. But the bomb did not save **any** lives. It killed hundreds of thousand in an instant. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/14 "2015-08-07T16:38:25Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What the hell is it with Americnas and their obscene views on “saving lives”, by bombing? :rolleyes: That’s not how you spell Americans. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/15 "2015-08-07T16:41:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What the hell is it with Americnas and their obscene views on “saving lives”, by bombing? :rolleyes: > > Doctors and paramedics save lives, not bomber pilots. > > Dropping the bomb was the absolute right thing to do. It was war. The Japanese were the enemy. The enemy had to be defeated and all resources to that end should and must have been employed. > > But the bomb did not save **any** lives. It killed hundreds of thousand in an instant. If a criminal is holding a gun to a hostage’s head, threatening to kill him in 10 seconds if some demand is not met, and a police sniper kills the criminal, has the sniper saved the hostage’s life? If not, why not? And getting away from semantics, do you agree that the two atomic bombings resulted in a smaller loss of life among Japanese than a full scale invasion would have? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/16 "2015-08-07T16:48:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What the hell is it with Americnas and their obscene views on “saving lives”, by bombing? :rolleyes: Pretty much the same way that people save money by shopping around for the best price on an item they want to buy. “I saved $2500 by buying my car from a dealer two states away instead of near my home.” When it is a foregone conclusion that an expenditure is going to happen, most people conceptualize the lesser of the two expenditures as “saving money.” Same logic applies here: A) Use nuclear weapons, kill ~200,000 people or B) continue with conventional warfare for X more months/years, killing 1,000,000 people Then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to regard option A as one that saves 800,000 lives. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/17 "2015-08-07T16:56:25Z")
Extrapolating from the percentage of the total population which died during the invasions of Saipan and Okinawa, something like six million Japanese would have died if the Allies invaded their homeland. Many of them at their own hands. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/18 "2015-08-07T17:02:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What the hell is it with Americnas and their obscene views on “saving lives”, by bombing? :rolleyes: A lot of Japanese died instead of a lot of Americans. It is too bad that the fellows who killed and ate POWs were not there. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/19 "2015-08-07T17:19:33Z")
There was a proposal (made by Oppenheimer?) to drop the first a-bomb on an island in Tokyo bay (Eta Jima). this would have afforded a demonstration, and not killed anybody. Would this have convinced the military dictatorship that ruled Japan? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154/20 "2015-08-07T17:24:12Z")
Likely it would only have convinced them we lacked the intestinal fortitude to drop it on a city. AIUI, the Japanese picked their fight with the USA in part because they perceived us as weak-willed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seventy-years-ago-today/727154.md?page=2)