# Severe enabling: Can it be undone? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 15, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384 "2009-12-15T18:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/21 "2009-12-15T23:04:04Z")
I doubt the parents in this case have the balls to disconnect the phone, the internet & the cable and eat out, but I guarantee it will work within three months - small sacrifice. I’ve a friend going through this right now. She says the kid missed her driving lesson because she (the mother) didn’t wake her up in time. Hey - if the kid wanted the driving lesson she would have been up and dressed and out the door. I’ve advised her not to mention the driving lessons again, but to become much less available to give rides. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/22 "2009-12-15T23:54:28Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I’m a little confused–even without the boyfriend, are you considering allowing her to move into your home? If so, why? No, I am not considering letting either of them into my home. It’s her mom, my SIL, who would allow the two of them to move into her/my brother’s home if they get married first. SIL should think before she speaks. But that’s another rant. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/23 "2009-12-15T23:57:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It sounds like her only “disorder” is what is known as “big fat spoiled brat syndrome.” I think we’re going to see an epidemic of this condition in the near future as children raised as the centre of the universe start reaching their majority. In my opinion, all you can do is protect yourself from them and their self-centred, grasping, thoughtless, thankless ways. I’m seeing some of it already in my college students, many of whom behave as if they’re barely out of kindergarten. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/24 "2009-12-16T00:37:06Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > You know, I really hate this attitude. My mother did that, and not only am I not a finer person, I spent 20 years or so not speaking to her. > > Meanwhile, my kids, who were never once turned over my or anyone else’s knees, have grown into fine people and productive citizens. > > So drop the child abuse idea. It’s too late now even if it would have worked. Spanking is not child abuse. For that matter, it is not the only effective means of disciplining children, and in some circumstances, may not be the most effective. Still think it would have helped Nancy in the OP. Children need consistent, fair, and firm discipline. Whether that takes the form of a few swats on the bottom or “time out” or withholding privileges or other reasonable steps is entrusted to the discretion of responsible parents. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/25 "2009-12-16T01:08:37Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Spanking is not child abuse. For that matter, it is not the only effective means of disciplining children, and in some circumstances, may not be the most effective. Still think it would have helped Nancy in the OP. Children need consistent, fair, and firm discipline. Whether that takes the form of a few swats on the bottom or “time out” or withholding privileges or other reasonable steps is entrusted to the discretion of responsible parents. What you described was **not** spanking. Nor any rational form of discipline. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Little Miss Nancy would be a finer person today if her parents had turned the little brat over their knees and worn her butt out early and often. Lots of my patients still have physical scars from their butt being “worn out early and often” in their youth. And look where they ended up. I am not opposed to appropriate physical discipline. But what you described is abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/26 "2009-12-16T01:28:04Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > What you described was **not** spanking. Nor any rational form of discipline. > > Lots of my patients still have physical scars from their butt being “worn out early and often” in their youth. And look where they ended up. > > I am not opposed to appropriate physical discipline. But what you described is abuse. Give me a break. I used a euphemism, not a play-by-play. I know what abuse is. I’m one of the few here who can match you horror story for horror story. You sew em up. I get them out of the abuser’s custody. We see the same cases, I just get them when the kids are a lot younger. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/27 "2009-12-16T02:17:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Give me a break. I used a euphemism, not a play-by-play. I know what abuse is. I’m one of the few here who can match you horror story for horror story. You sew em up. I get them out of the abuser’s custody. We see the same cases, I just get them when the kids are a lot younger. Then as a professional, you should know that such _euphemisms_ just serve to muddy the waters. If you’re going to argue for appropriate corporal discipline, be concrete. Having “little brats” get their butt worn out “early and often” does not convey the concept you’re now arguing for. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/28 "2009-12-16T02:21:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Then as a professional, you should know that such _euphemisms_ just serve to muddy the waters. If you’re going to argue for appropriate corporal discipline, be concrete. Having “little brats” get their butt worn out “early and often” does not convey the concept you’re now arguing for. That, or maybe it’s just a casual comment outside of GQ and considerably more molehill than mountain. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/29 "2009-12-16T02:23:52Z")
I think most of us will agree that kids need firm and consistent discipline. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/30 "2009-12-16T02:30:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That, or maybe it’s just a casual comment outside of GQ and considerably more molehill than mountain. Let me then be the first to claim this molehill for all argumentative pedants everywhere, then! [sub]Hah! Surely I have the moral high ground now.[/sub] 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/31 "2009-12-16T02:47:43Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Let me then be the first to claim this molehill for all argumentative pedants everywhere, then! > [sub]Hah! Surely I have the moral high ground now.[/sub] > > 🆒 Dude…I’m a lawyer. You get moral high ground by default. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/32 "2009-12-16T03:50:39Z")
If you really want to help Nancy I would let her see how awesome your life is because you are independent. When she tries to make a decision and her mom disagrees calmly explain that her mom has a point after all since she is paying for everything. When she is bitching and moaning about needing money to visit her boyfriend let her see the brochures for the 6 or 7 vacations you are choosing between this year because you can do whatever you want when you pay for it yourself. Tell her about how awesome it was that you got to do X, Y or Z as a benefit of your job to let her see how work isn’t all slaving for a paycheck. Tell her about your friend who is living in Paris for a year for work or who saved up to take 6 months off and cruise around South America. Right now she sees nothing better than having someone else provide the funding for her life and she needs to see the benefits of being independent that have nothing to do with money. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/33 "2009-12-16T05:37:17Z")
Tough love is good. Throwing someone out on the street is not. There’s a middle ground between coddling people and leaving them to fend for themselves and refusing to help at all. She needs to be introduced to responsibilities somewhat slowly though faster than if the parents had raised her well the first time. Human beings respond best to gradual changes. Granted, for her sake, you’ll want to go as fast as you can, but there is such a thing as going too fast. You know the old standby of throwing a kid into water to teach them to swim: sure it works for some. And most may make it out alive. But many wind up cementing their phobia of water permanently. It almost happened to me. And I’m still in therapy at age 24. Enabling parents are bad. But if those same parents kicked their kid out and write them out of their lives, the total would be far worse than just enabling alone. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/34 "2009-12-16T05:54:05Z")
From my experiences, being exposed to harsh cold winds of reality has the possibility of changing the mind of anyone of any age. Setting some boundaries would work, as many others have pointed out. Like what have been commonly said, if you have the freedom of an adult, you have the responsibilities of an adult. If you want to be treated as one, you have to take on those responsibilities too. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/35 "2009-12-16T19:06:27Z")
> [@CrazyChop](#): > > \ > Like what have been commonly said, if you have the freedom of an adult, you have the responsibilities of an adult. If you want to be treated as one, you have to take on those responsibilities too. That is absolutely true, but an incredibly hard sell for kids who have grown up practically running their households\* - they got all the perks of being decision-makers with none of the responsibility and grinding daily work. \*When I say “running the household” I mean that everything revolved around them and their whims, not that they were actually paying the bills and cleaning up and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/36 "2009-12-16T19:31:49Z")
> [@CrazyChop](#): > > Like what have been commonly said, if you have the freedom of an adult, you have the responsibilities of an adult. If you want to be treated as one, you have to take on those responsibilities too. We had that problem with my then 19-year-old stepson, but not as bad as the OP. He just hadn’t decided what to do with his life, and living with his mother and me was a pretty sweet deal. We generally had a pretty good relationship, but after one of the few times I jumped his ass about something, he said, “Talk to me like an adult!” Whoo boy, he didn’t realize what an opening he gave me, and I gave him the lecture about how an adult pays his own way. Like I said, a pretty good kid, but lazy (kind of describes me). What we finally ended up doing was getting him a job at a vet clinic in New Orleans where his cousin worked, dropping him off, and telling him he was on his own. This was about 9 years ago. He’s an executive in his firm now, married to a wonderful woman, and living about 1000 miles away from us. ETA: A couple of years ago, he admitted that he was pretty pissed at us for quite a while. Breaks my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/37 "2009-12-16T19:56:11Z")
This is what you get when you enable all your life: You get an adult son living at home with two children and his wife. A family who makes over $125,000 as a combined salary and who could afford to move out. Someone who has never lived on their own. Never been grocery shopping with an empty fridge at home. Never had to sign a lease. Never had to deal with roomates. Never had to somehow make sure dinner was on the table, each and every night. You get a warped human being. Is there a way to fix it? Without throwing them on the street? Get back to me, I’ll let you know in a few more years. Maybe by then they’ll be on their own. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/38 "2009-12-19T16:24:41Z")
The culinary school starts on Jan. 11. Assuming that Nancy actually gets up on time and goes there, I am genuinely curious to see how long she will last. Since all she really likes to cook is desserts, I assume she’ll take the baking and pastry degree program. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/39 "2009-12-19T16:35:15Z")
While in principle I agree with “tough love,” you have to remember not to forget the “love” part of it. Throwing a kid out into the world, without actually teaching her anything is not the best idea. You have a kid who does exactly like she pleases and you throw her out, she’ll find a friend and wind up at party and in a month be hooked up on meth or some other drug. Why? Because no one teaches them, stay out of drugs, get a job etc etc. It’s like teaching a child to swim by thowing them in the pool. OK that method may work but you don’t throw the kid in and then walk away. You throw the kid in and WATCH to make sure if she starts drowning you can pull her out. So I am not saying “tough love” is bad, but remember to do BOTH parts. ---
**Author:** ![Vambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/6de8d8/32.png) [@Vambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vambo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/40 "2009-12-19T16:37:31Z")
Maybe it’s not the girl who needs to make a choice. Kids, and this is a kid will take things on in their own time and way. If we get out of the way and let them. Parents who don’t want to take the responsibility when it means confrontation with their kids are making matter worse I think. It’s wrong to take advantage of people and this lesson should be taught early on. So should not allowing others to treat you like a door mat, a bank or a homeless shelter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384.md?page=3)