# Severe enabling: Can it be undone? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 15, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384 "2009-12-15T18:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/61 "2009-12-22T02:06:20Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > To be sure. Having high-self esteem is also not correlated to life satisfaction. Just because someone feels good about him or herself doesn’t mean he or she will be happy. In fact, for narcissists, unhappiness is pretty common because they don’t get everything they expect out of others. > > It’s arguable that self-esteem is really only relevant to psychological disorders where people are suffering from a very negative perception of themselves. However, it might be better to use a different word altogether when talking about psych disorders: self-_efficacy_, or one’s belief that they have the ability to take action to help themselves. To be sure, many kids suffering from Entitlement Disorder\* have self-esteem off the charts but very little self-efficacy. Bandura’s research on self-efficacy indicates that it’s pretty much a requirement for life satisfaction. > > \*Yeah I totally made that up I like that - the difference between self-esteem and self-efficacy and why you want to aim for self-efficacy, not self-esteem, if you want to have a happy, useful life. That makes perfect sense. I also think that Entitlement Disorder in some ways is a better term than Narcissistic Disorder - it really describes the problem these people have with the world, and the problems the world has with them. If you want to get these people out of your life so you don’t have to continue watching this slow-motion trainwreck, **viva** , you can do what I did with my sister and her family who are like this - inadvertently insult them so deeply that they never speak with you again. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/62 "2009-12-22T10:37:16Z")
You can’t change the situation if you didn’t create it. Sitting back and watching is extremely painful. Having a root canal done while riding on a bike while you have hemerroids would be less painful. When the enabler starts whining and complaining about the problem person takes advantage/uses them/whatever, when the first period - as in punctuation - comes in the conversation, _change the subject.__It isn’t rude, it is essential for your mental survival._ This puts up an invisible wall to let the Martyr know you aren’t there to be their cheap therapist. They aren’t listening anyway so why should you get crapped on with their problems that they refuse to work towards a resolution anyways. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/63 "2009-12-22T16:02:21Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > I agree with this, to a certain extent. You have to admit, though, that if a child is raised to believe the world operates in a certain way, you can hardly blame the child when they end up believing that the world does, in fact, operate that way. > > If this girl grew up getting everything handed to her and never having to work for a damn thing, she’s going to believe that’s the way life is: that everything will be handed to her and she won’t have to work for a damn thing. Parents that think they can hand their kids everything and then somehow have those kids magically turn out to be self sufficient adults as soon as they turn 18 are deluded. > > It boils down to this: brattiness can be inherent, but entitlement is taught. I’ve noticed that the older sister, now 21, isn’t like Nancy at all. Then again, the older one was always more sensible, organized, diligent, and much more giving. Nancy got her demands met by throwing a fit if things were not going her way. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/64 "2009-12-22T16:22:34Z")
She isn’t going to learn to stand on her own feet - the enablers do have some blame, too. My biological mother was carried by her elder sister, my aunt well into her forties. Every time she came to ask for money, my aunt would give it to her. And then she’d disappear for a while. And then come back when she was out of money. Over and over. When do you not blame the enablers, who open their wallets every time? And when my half-brothers come to ask me for money when our mother dies, and I say hell no, I’m going to be perceived as the cruel one who doesn’t love family. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/65 "2009-12-22T16:35:16Z")
After [hearing a podcast interview with one of the authors](http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/6196564)(link launches audio), University of Virginia psychology professor Joseph Allen, [Escaping the Endless Adolescence: How We Can Help Our Teenagers Grow Up Before They Grow Old](http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780345507891) has made my list of books to pick up next time I’m at the library. Check out the podcast, maybe browse the book at the store and see if it would make a good gift, either for the girl or her parents. A lot of these infantalized teens desperately want to grow up, but don’t know how. And the parents don’t know how to help them. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/66 "2010-01-01T19:18:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Spanking is not child abuse. For that matter, it is not the only effective means of disciplining children, and in some circumstances, may not be the most effective. Still think it would have helped Nancy in the OP. Children need consistent, fair, and firm discipline. Whether that takes the form of a few swats on the bottom or “time out” or withholding privileges or other reasonable steps is entrusted to the discretion of responsible parents. They tried it. Didn’t work. She didn’t care. She always did whatever the hell she wanted. Just a few years ago, they told her not to get her navel pierced. So she just went off to her friend’s house and let her do the piercing. I’m sure she did it just to be contrary. She can’t be wrong, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/67 "2010-01-27T17:20:43Z")
Shockingly, Nancy loves the cooking school and is still enrolled. I hope she can endure to the end and then do something with the skills. In the meantime, my mom didn’t feel like giving the granddaughters a chunk of change for Christmas (they never say thank you, but that’s only one reason), so she just gave them about ten dollars each. She justified it to my brother on the phone recently by saying that she had been remodeling, paying property taxes, etc. (all true) He commented that she might need a financial manager. :rolleyes: I swear, the entitlement feeling must roll uphill. ---
**Author:** ![orderfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orderfire/32/10908_2.png) [@orderfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orderfire)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/68 "2010-01-27T21:09:12Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Culinary school seems to be a sort of dream for people whose entire exposure to commercial food preparation is limited to watching Food Network shows. Cooking is actually damned hard work (although fast moving) and there is no leeway giving to a cook who can’t show up on time or keep his shit together in terms of job performance. I’ve known a lot of cooks who were complete losers in most ways (drug users, felons, general lying scumbags) but none of the ones who lasted any time at all could be accused of being lazy. I’ve never been to culinary school or in the Marine Corps boot camp, but I met one guy who’d done both, and he swore that he’d rather go back to boot than culinary school again. Apparently d.i.s at Recruit Training were less critical of him than his instructors at CIA. 😉 > > Stranger Oh thank you for saying this, **Stranger**. True dat. She wouldn’t last long in a pro kitchen the way the OP describes her. I am envisioning her running out the back door sobbing two hours into the shift. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/69 "2010-01-27T21:19:07Z")
I think it’s one of those for-profit schools that will admit anyone, so I don’t know if they’re all that strict. Still… ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384/70 "2010-02-03T23:42:16Z")
She’s still enrolled, but she’s figured out how to game the parents–not that she didn’t know already. She’s got them running out to buy food and cooking sherry and whatever so she can practice at home. She also insists that her eyeglasses have to be Versace or Prada “because nothing else looks good.” :rolleyes: I wonder what it’s like to have someone else’s money to spend on a whim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-enabling-can-it-be-undone/521384.md?page=3)