# Severe Hijack, about US borders, moved to pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949 "2023-08-23T01:52:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/261 "2023-08-24T19:04:23Z")
Would you be willing to be the one in that spot pulling the trigger yourself to kill all of these desperate people? Or does letting someone else do it for you make you feel like less of a sociopath when you advocate for these deaths? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/262 "2023-08-24T19:14:52Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Would you be willing to be the one in that spot pulling the trigger yourself to kill all of these desperate people? Or does letting someone else do it for you make you feel like less of a sociopath when you advocate for these deaths Whether I do it or someone else does makes no difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/263 "2023-08-24T19:24:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So what made those ancestors of mine American? A philosophy, a mindset, a dream. They were willing to risk everything to come to a new place where they didn’t fit in, to work hard, to ensure that their descendants would have a better life than them. That dream was what made them American, and it’s the same dream shared by the folks who come across our border to flee oppression, and to work our farms. And so, those folks today are Americans, just as my ancestors were. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/264 "2023-08-24T19:28:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And as for my reaction to that choice, I kind of figured my position inclined more to “cold indifference” or “beneath consideration” talk than to, y’know, “burning hatred”. Sociopathy sounds most accurate. That’s a deeply inhumane attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/265 "2023-08-24T19:30:57Z")
Complete indifference to the unnecessary and extra-judicial killing of desperate people. Yup, sociopath is the right word. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/266 "2023-08-24T19:43:12Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Whether I do it or someone else does makes no difference to me. It’s hard to believe there are people like you in the world. Kill them all and let god sort them out. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/267 "2023-08-24T19:47:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Whether I do it or someone else does makes no difference to me. How can you shoot women or children TOWP? Easy! Ya just don’t lead 'em so much! AmIright? And the only thing you feel when you shoot a child is recoil. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/268 "2023-08-24T20:25:23Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And the only thing you feel when you shoot a child is recoil. While a sane human would recoil at the thought of shooting a child. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/269 "2023-08-24T22:09:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Would you be willing to be the one in that spot pulling the trigger yourself Keep talking like this and the poor guy is going to mess all over his keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/270 "2023-08-25T00:55:36Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > ICE and other law enforcement agencies should enforce the immigration laws that have been established. Do you not understand that the law _provides_ for a way for undocumented aliens to apply for a different status, such as asylum? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/271 "2023-08-25T04:50:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > In what way, pray tell, is being caught in razor wire not a punishment? Punishment must be inflicted, no? Placing razor wire on the border is not punishment in the same sense that pushing a person into the wire would be. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/272 "2023-08-25T05:08:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are all or most of these children criminals? Do they deserve to be called “illegal…”? For the record, illegal does not imply criminal. It has that connotation in a lot of contexts but technically they are not the same. In particular, a person’s presence in the U.S. can be adjudged illegal (synonym: unlawful). That person may be locked up on reasonable suspicion including proximity to the border and lack of identity papers, denied access to a lawyer free of charge, and even deported, without actually being convicted of any crime. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/273 "2023-08-25T05:19:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Airbeck](#): > > > > Would you be willing to be the one in that spot pulling the trigger yourself to kill all of these desperate people? Or does letting someone else do it for you make you feel like less of a sociopath when you advocate for these deaths > > Whether I do it or someone else does makes no difference to me. Now this, shooting the people in cold blood, this is definitely punishment. I see a fucking bright line between gunning down unarmed refugees that attempt to cross the border, Berlin-wall-style, and erecting razor wire or other potentially lethal but passive obstacles. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/274 "2023-08-25T06:04:10Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Now this, shooting the people in cold blood, this is definitely punishment. I see a fucking bright line between gunning down unarmed refugees that attempt to cross the border, Berlin-wall-style, and erecting razor wire or other potentially lethal but passive obstacles. What about planting landmines along the border? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/275 "2023-08-25T06:27:04Z")
Mines are almost as bad, in some ways maybe worse. I don’t like the idea of razor wire barriers, but at least they are highly visible. People know what they’re risking. Fences, walls, and barriers can be erected without lethal intent. Mines, though? That would be very difficult to argue. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/276 "2023-08-25T06:31:36Z")
Is the razor wire visible above the water? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/277 "2023-08-25T06:32:57Z")
I would change my mind if it isn’t. (Including at night.) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/278 "2023-08-25T07:07:57Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Punishment must be inflicted, no? Or imposed, yes. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Placing razor wire on the border is not punishment in the same sense that pushing a person into the wire would be. It’s not “placing razor wire on the border”, it’s “hiding razor wire underwater in the known path of people”. It’s not a fence, it’s a land mine field. And it’s very much _inflicted_ on people taking that path. Especially when they already avoided the wire [and are then pushed back into it.](https://americasvoice.org/press_releases/texas-voices-offer-reminder-dehumanized-immigration-debate-must-also-keep-real-and-affected-people-front-and-center/) Just fuck off with defending the indefensible for shits and giggles. It doesn’t show your intellectual superiority. Merely your inhumanity. It’s so godsdamn _tedious_. And you were doing so well lately. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/279 "2023-08-25T07:33:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s not “placing razor wire on the border”, it’s “hiding razor wire underwater in the known path of people”. And evidently, it’s also “placing that razor wire in another sovereign nation’s territory”. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/280 "2023-08-25T07:34:03Z")
Meme I recently saw: Amazing how “I’d kill for my kids” is a widely accepted and agreed upon ideal for Americans, but somehow “I’d illegally cross a border for my kids” is a big no-no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949.md?page=15)