# Severe Hijack, about US borders, moved to pit
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 23, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949 "2023-08-23T01:52:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/61 "2023-08-23T03:46:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> You’ve indicated that you presume all “illegal immigrants” to be guilty.
>
> I’m merely applying the same standard to your ancestors
No, presuming all _illegal_ immigrants to be something doesn’t mean you’re to presume that all immigrants are illegal immigrants.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/62 "2023-08-23T03:48:12Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> I replied that way because he said “you’re a stain on our nation, the sort of jackbooted racist shitwad”.
That he may not be wrong on that assestment does not mean that you can conveniently ignore that he was pointing at your most prominent quality.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/63 "2023-08-23T03:48:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> No, presuming all _illegal_ immigrants to be something doesn’t mean you’re to presume that all immigrants are illegal immigrants.
Nobody gave them permission to show up, correct?
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/64 "2023-08-23T04:00:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Nobody gave them permission to show up, correct?
Someone upthread noted that: _“In 1907, no passports or visas were needed to enter the United States through Ellis Island. In fact, no papers were required at all.”_ To the best of my knowledge, my ancestors showed up the same way they entered: at the designated processing location, as permitted, and while breaking no laws, in the presence of authorities who (a) turned away _some,_ but (b) didn’t turn _them_ away.
It’s possible I have that wrong. But, as far as I know, I have every word of that right.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/65 "2023-08-23T04:04:39Z")
So you and yours got in and fuck those other foreigners, right? By the way, what should the punishment be for a family fleeing for their lives crossing the border?
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/66 "2023-08-23T04:10:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> To the best of my knowledge, my ancestors showed up the same way they entered: at the designated processing location, as permitted, and while breaking no laws, in the presence of authorities who (a) turned away _some,_ but (b) didn’t turn _them_ away.
So we’re in agreement that there should be a designated place where people can immigrate to the US without permission or papers, then.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/67 "2023-08-23T04:14:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Do you and yours got in and fuck those other foreigners, right?
I believe that plenty of would-be immigrants should be allowed in even today. I just also believe that plenty of would-be immigrants shouldn’t be.
> [@](#):
>
> By the way, what should the punishment be for a family fleeing for their lives crossing the border?
I’m open to suggestions; make one and I’ll let you know what I think of it.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/68 "2023-08-23T04:15:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> So we’re in agreement that there should be a designated place where people can immigrate to the US without permission or papers, then.
No, being in agreement that there _was_ a place where one could do something without papers doesn’t mean being in agreement that there _should be_ such a place. It amazes me that you’d try to so derive one from the other.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/69 "2023-08-23T04:15:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> I just also believe that plenty of would-be immigrants shouldn’t be.
Why not?
Be advised that if you mutter anything about “not assimilating” I will insist on seeing proof that your ancestors spoke fluent English when they arrived.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/70 "2023-08-23T04:16:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> No, being in agreement that there _was_ a place where one could do something without papers doesn’t mean being in agreement that there _should be_ such a place.
So your ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed in, then.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/71 "2023-08-23T04:17:31Z")
Except that you have already told us what you think they deserve, you sadistic little shit.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/72 "2023-08-23T04:23:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Why not?
>
> Be advised that if you mutter anything about “not assimilating” I will insist on seeing proof that your ancestors spoke fluent English when they arrived
I don’t think we need to say anything about “assimilating” in particular to say something about “being in the best interests of our country” in general. If this or that would-be immigrant wants to make the case that it _would_ be in the best interests of our country to allow it, well, then, _let’s hear them out_ as we go case-by-case: maybe one will get permission and the other won’t, or maybe neither will get permission, or maybe both will.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/73 "2023-08-23T04:27:13Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> I don’t follow.
That’s because you’re a fucking idiot.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/74 "2023-08-23T04:28:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> So your ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed in, then
No, that doesn’t follow either. I’m only saying that they _were_ allowed to legally immigrate, which (a) means it’s incorrect for you to say the opposite, and which (b) doesn’t mean they should have been allowed in, or that they shouldn’t have been allowed in, or that anyone else should or shouldn’t have been allowed in; it’s a mere statement of fact that, again, they, y’know, _were,_ is all.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/75 "2023-08-23T04:30:48Z")
Should your ancestors have been allowed in?
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/76 "2023-08-23T04:31:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Should your ancestors have been allowed in?
I believe so, yes.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/77 "2023-08-23T04:39:22Z")
And what makes your ancestors more deserving than people who’d like to be let in today?
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/78 "2023-08-23T04:45:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> And what makes your ancestors more deserving than people who’d like to be let in today?
Possibly nothing! As I just said — in reply to you, upon copy-and-pasting something you wrote — “If this or that would-be immigrant wants to make the case that it _would_ be in the best interests of our country to allow it, well, then, _let’s hear them out_ as we go case-by-case: maybe one will get permission and the other won’t, or maybe neither will get permission, or maybe both will.”
I believe that some people “who’d like to be let in today” could make that case and get that permission, and that they’d be just as deserving as my ancestors were. And I believe that some people “who’d like to be let in today” would fail to make that case, and _fail_ to get that permission.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/79 "2023-08-23T04:49:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> believe that some people “who’d like to be let in today” could make that case and get that permission, and that they’d be just as deserving as my ancestors were.
And yet the system that allowed your ancestors to do just that no longer exists, and you seem to be just fine with that.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2023, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-hijack-about-us-borders-moved-to-pit/988949/80 "2023-08-23T05:00:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> And yet the system that allowed your ancestors to do just that no longer exists, and you seem to be just fine with that.
I believe that, at the time, the government was operating under the assumption that such a process would lead to pretty good results for the country. And I believe that, at present, the government has concluded that the current process will lead to even better results than using the old system would.
That’s, well, _what we do_: we run things one way for a while — and then, if we have good reason to believe that we’ll get better results going another way, we vote accordingly to change things up. Seems pretty unremarkable, when you get right down to it.
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