# Severe teacher shortage situation in America right now **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 4, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091 "2022-08-04T14:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/261 "2022-09-14T22:00:30Z")
Where I live, that would be white kids, Asian kids (but not the ones from Myanmar), and the offspring of the Indian physicians who buy up all the McMansions. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/262 "2022-09-14T23:05:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Ziberian](#): > > > > As I explained previously, my insight says technology can help teachers do their job better. I stand by that – Khan Academy is better at teaching math/science than any teacher I had in 12 years of school. > > You’ve got in-depth insight into how KA worked for one student. I’ve got less in-depth insight for how it’s worked for between 150-250 students. > > What I’ve found is that for about a third of students, it’s a complete waste of time. They disengage from it and either don’t complete the assignments at all, or complete them with random-clicks. They find it boring and offputting and see it as a chore to complete rather than as a learning opportunity. Another third don’t like it, but at least they put some effort into it. Another third kind of get into it and put real effort into it and make some gains through it. > > In my 10+ years of using KA off and on, I’ve had exactly one student for whom it really clicked. He loved it, and by the end of October in third grade, he’d completed the entire third grade math course. By the end of April, he’d completed the entire fourth grade math course. The self-paced methodical nature of its independent work was exactly the key for his lock, and he thrived with it. > > If he were telling us about Khan Academy, he might describe it as the best math teacher he ever had, and he might tell us about how superior it was to human instruction. > > But I’ve got another 149 kids who’ll tell you differently. But aren’t you describing the attention/enthusiasm breakout of just about _any_ math class? Human teachers inspire some students, bore others, etc. The beauty of software is that it can be designed to reach a variety of students. It can provide different approaches to material, audio, visual, interactive, color-coded, geometry as a music video, repetition, review, connections to other topics, etc etc etc, a multitude of ways to engage students. It doesn’t have to be linear, or rote, it can help students catch up, and those ahead of the curve. Can it provide emotional support? No, but how many human teachers really do that? I’m not saying KA can replace every human teacher. But that’s just one app. An app designed to _aid_ students, not teach every student from the ground up. Well-designed apps, won’t replace human teachers, but would improve learning for a lot of students, and the workload for teachers. Based on teacher feedback here, that design hasn’t happened yet, (or maybe no school district has yet been willing to invest in it), but I don’t understand why teachers are so resistant to the very idea. You should be driving the process, which would give you input and control, because it’s surely coming – no administrator will be able to resist the cost savings – instead of being handed a finished product that just makes your life harder. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/263 "2022-09-14T23:34:07Z")
I think you have a point; but I also think you’re underestimating the degree to which people, especially kids, need and are stimulated and motivated by _direct interaction with other human beings_. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/264 "2022-09-14T23:57:52Z")
That’s probably true. Though watching kids ignore all humans in the area while buried in their phone makes me wonder. But I’m not advocating for the elimination of teachers, I was suggesting technology be used to **help** them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/265 "2022-09-14T23:58:50Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > But aren’t you describing the attention/enthusiasm breakout of just about _any_ math class? No. My fifteen years working with hundreds of kids means I’m not describing that, _at all_. Please trust that your insight from being one kid who went through school is wildly insufficient for telling veteran teachers what works and what doesn’t. > [@Ziberian](#): > > You should be driving the process, which would give you input and control, because it’s surely coming – no administrator will be able to resist the cost savings – instead of being handed a finished product that just makes your life harder. You’ve got to be kidding me. You’re not remotely in a position to advise me on what I “should be” doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/266 "2022-09-15T00:17:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Please trust that your insight from being one kid who went through school is wildly insufficient for telling veteran teachers what works and what doesn’t. Well, no, the idea that only teachers know anything about teaching is crap. I’m not saying I’m special, EVERY kid who went through school knows good/bad teaching – 12 years is a lot of exposure to helpful/worthless teaching techniques. And ‘veteran’ teacher does NOT equal ‘good’ teacher, given the complete lack of evaluation & removal mechanisms for incompetent teachers. I’m not ‘advising’ you, I don’t care what you do. But next time you wonder why John Q Public doesn’t offer teachers more support, reread our posts here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/267 "2022-09-15T00:18:36Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > Well, no, the idea that only teachers know anything about teaching is crap Absolute crap. Why on earth would I think that experts know anything? > [@Ziberian](#): > > But next time you wonder why John Q Public doesn’t offer teachers more support Dude, I don’t wonder this. I’ve studied the political context of public education far more than you ever have and likely ever will, going back to the Civil War period and up through modern times. I know exactly why certain folks don’t offer schools more support. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/268 "2022-09-15T00:23:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Absolute crap. Why on earth would I think that experts know anything? Every teacher is not an expert. There is no test for subject knowledge, or expertise in teaching methods, and no penalty for having neither. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/269 "2022-09-15T00:36:48Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > Every teacher is not an expert. Okay, but I’m a national board-certified teacher, I’ve been teaching for fifteen years, I’m beloved by many many students, I was my school’s teacher of the year in 20-21, I’m the president of our local union which under my leadership has skyrocketed to the biggest local in the state, _and I’m telling you you’re wrong_. > [@Ziberian](#): > > There is no test for subject knowledge [Surprisingly, you’re wrong again.](https://www.ets.org/praxis/nc/test-takers/plan-your-test/licensure-requirements.html#accordion-0480e0678a-item-fde6d12ca7) > [@Ziberian](#): > > or expertise in teaching methods [and again.](https://study.com/academy/course/praxis-elementary-education-multiple-subjects-practice-study-guide.html) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/270 "2022-09-15T00:45:58Z")
I was going to say…the Praxis is a rather good test of both subject knowledge and practical teaching knowledge. I know, I took (and passed with above flying colors) 4 of them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/271 "2022-09-15T00:49:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Okay, but I’m a national board-certified teacher, I’ve been teaching for fifteen years, I’m beloved by many many students, I was my school’s teacher of the year in 20-21, I’m the president of our local union which under my leadership has skyrocketed to the biggest local in the state, _and I’m telling you you’re wrong_. But his _ **insight.** _ This fundamental lack of respect for teaching as a profession and a skillset is one of the most problematic issues at play in the American educational system. Parents have it, politicians have it, many administrators have it, and ‘John Q Public’ has it. There are few other skilled professions that get Monday morning quarterbacked quite as much. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/272 "2022-09-15T13:11:42Z")
With the exception of actual quarterbacks and/or coaches, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/273 "2022-09-15T17:02:02Z")
I was mistaken. You & every other teacher in the US is a fully qualified expert, both in your subject matter and teaching methods. There is no one outside teaching who knows anything about teaching/learning. No one, except teachers, can possibly understand the intricacies of this singularly demanding profession. To suggest technology has anything to offer teaching is insulting & shows a complete lack of respect for teachers. So you’ll be shocked to hear that there are actual teachers (traitors!) who share my views. And studies that prove technology can, in fact, help students learn. But I’m confident you can find at least three nitpicks to invalidate every source that doesn’t exalt human teachers as the one (and only) true way. [[https://edtechmagazine.com/k12/article/2013/02/survey-74-percent-educators-support-use-technology-schools](https://edtechmagazine.com/k12/article/2013/02/survey-74-percent-educators-support-use-technology-schools)] " In fact, **74 percent** of educators surveyed said technology is key to helping them expand on classroom content; the same percentage said technology is a motivational tool; and **73 percent** said it helps teachers respond to different learning styles. Moreover, **69 percent** said technology has helped do more than ever before for their students." [([https://news.mit.edu/2019/mit-jpal-what-126-studies-tell-us-about-education-technology-impact-0226](https://news.mit.edu/2019/mit-jpal-what-126-studies-tell-us-about-education-technology-impact-0226)] “Second, educational software (often called “computer-assisted learning”) programs designed to help students develop particular skills have shown enormous promise in improving learning outcomes, particularly in math. Targeting instruction to meet students’ learning levels has been found to be effective in improving student learning, but large class sizes with a wide range of learning levels can make it hard for teachers to personalize instruction. Software has the potential to overcome traditional classroom constraints by customizing activities for each student.” [[How Does Technology Impact Student Learning?](https://bau.edu/blog/technology-impact-on-learning/)] “Virtual classrooms, augmented reality (AR), videos, different robots, and other technology tools can not only make the class more interesting, but they can also develop more inclusive practices that foster cooperation and intellectual curiosity while also allowing teachers to collect data on student performance.” [[How to Increase Student Engagement With Technology | Chalk](https://www.chalk.com/resources/increasing-student-engagement-technology/)] ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/274 "2022-09-15T17:16:27Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > I was mistaken. Yes, you were. Sadly, you’re even mistaken on what you’re mistaken _about_. The rest of your post is petulant self-pity combined with lots of cites that demonstrate that you don’t even understand what I and other teachers are saying about technology (hint: I didn’t say anything that disagrees with the idea that “technology is key to helping them expand on classroom content”). I’m here for productive conversation, so unless you’re willing to take a serious listen to what I’m saying, I’m not sure we have much future as conversation partners. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/275 "2022-09-15T17:19:20Z")
You do realize, of course, that the cites you provided don’t say a damn thing about what you are supporting. They are all couched with weasel-words like “may,” “can,” etc. The first cite covers so much that it is worthless. “Technology” covers everything from Smartboards to classroom computers to giving the teacher internet access. None of the stuff you offer says what you want it to say. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/276 "2022-09-15T17:58:18Z")
I’m sure all the teachers in this thread who have advocated against classroom technology of any kind will now change their tunes. Who were they, again? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/277 "2022-09-15T19:45:46Z")
Just in case it’s not clear, I’ve advocated a couple of specific ways of using Khan Academy, right here in this thread. I’ve used green-screen technology to help students create entries for the [90-second Newbery Film Fest](https://90secondnewbery.com/). I’ve taught Hour of Code, and I’ve used Spheros (programmable self-propelled balls) to teach a force and motion unit that I developed over multiple years. Student collaboration on Google Docs and Slides and Sheets is a staple of my classroom–yes, I teach spreadsheets at the elementary level. _I like technology_. If you’re reading me saying anything different, I submit you’re not reading my words very carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/278 "2022-09-17T23:12:01Z")
I’ve taught in nine different high schools, and I’ve never seen one where it’s that bad. Teaching to the test is a problem, but we can still at least choose how we’re teaching to the test. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/279 "2022-09-18T13:41:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In NC, they’re the latest iteration of “segregation academies,” the private schools opened up in response to desegregation so that wealthy White families could keep their kids from going to school with poor Black families. Charter schools get “flexibility” in how they meet student needs such as transportation and food; and if you don’t offer free hot breakfast and lunch and busing, poor families will be much less able to send their kids to your school. “We’re actively recruiting a diverse student population!” the administrators can say, while administering an almost all-White population. Whereas in DC, charter schools primarily serve non-white students from economically disadvantaged families. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/280 "2022-10-03T21:11:55Z")
I read this somewhat related article in the Washington Post. This Arizona school district is hiring teachers from the Philippines: > **[An American education](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/10/02/teacher-shortage-bullhead-city-arizona/)** > > Amid a historic U.S. teacher shortage, a ‘Most Outstanding Teacher’ from the Philippines tries to help save a struggling school in rural Arizona. It was free, but now when I click it, it wants a subscription. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091.md?page=15)