# Severe teacher shortage situation in America right now **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 4, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091 "2022-08-04T14:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/41 "2022-08-04T23:42:57Z")
I’m not a parent, but if I were, I wouldn’t be happy if the person teaching my first grader didn’t have _at least_ a Masters in Shapes and Colors. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/42 "2022-08-04T23:44:45Z")
I don’t know; I think I agree with @Bootb on this one: Someone with good teaching skills and poor content knowledge is worse than someone with poor teaching skills but good content knowledge. The latter will leave students with empty heads, but the former will leave students with heads full of wrong information. Back when I was teaching college students, I spent more time and effort on un-teaching, prying those wrong notions out, than I did on actual teaching. That said, a lack in either is a bad thing. You really need someone who’s good at teaching AND good at the subject matter. I still don’t understand what “hire vets” is supposed to accomplish. Vets can already become teachers. They’re choosing not to for all of the same reasons that non-vets are. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/43 "2022-08-04T23:48:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The latter will leave students with empty heads, but the former will leave students with heads full of wrong information. Not necessarily. The teacher with poor content knowledge can, _if they realize that,_ either rectify their knowledge, or use teaching techniques that guide students to solid knowledge. Some years back I did a unit in which students gave quick biographical reports, and they reported on plenty of people I didn’t know anything about. I could help them develop knowledge I didn’t have because I knew how to teach them to acquire knowledge. Of course, if a teacher has poor understanding of their content area _and doesn’t know it_, that can be disastrous, I agree. I’ve sat in observations where a teacher taught something wrong, and I broke my observation rules to pipe up, because c’mon, I’m not going to let them teach a class that a dog weighs a thousand kilograms. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/44 "2022-08-04T23:56:52Z")
One relative who teaches high school has told me about a new major pain. After returning to the classroom a lot of students had turned into foul-mouthed self-centered jerks. And these are the ones that belong to a Christian religious cult that’s popular in the area! ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/45 "2022-08-04T23:57:54Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > oulders above all other qualifications, is this– > knowledge of the subject being taught. I guess so. But in elementary school, which I am most familiar with, most adults know first grade math and reading, say. But how many adults could handle a room of 30 six-year-olds? Classroom management is where the real skill lies, at least in the lower grades. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/46 "2022-08-04T23:58:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I still don’t understand what “hire vets” is supposed to accomplish. Vote pandering. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/47 "2022-08-05T00:06:49Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > But to my mind, the #1 qualification, standing head and shoulders above all other qualifications, is this– > knowledge of the subject being taught. That’s probably somewhere between #3 and #6, depending on the student population. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/48 "2022-08-05T00:34:50Z")
The idea that only content knowledge matters… Seems like that’s a big part of what teachers mean when they talk about lack of respect - people think their skill set is unimportant. Until they are being taught by such a person, that is. I’ve had some truly miserable experiences with teachers who had content knowledge, but no teaching skills. Mike Tyson has said that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. A lot of people think teaching is cakewalk until they are actually faced with a class full of kids. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/49 "2022-08-05T00:37:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Back when I was teaching college students, I spent more time and effort on un-teaching, prying those wrong notions out, than I did on actual teaching. What kinds of things did you have to un-teach? ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/50 "2022-08-05T01:00:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If I may hijack my own thread a bit, this problem is entirely about K-12, right? There seems to be no shortage of professors in college at all. It probably depends on the field, but it seems to be getting harder and harder to fill chemistry and physics positions even when it’s full-time. Adjuncts are even harder to get. The pandemic (or should I say post-pandemic) made it much worse. Course sections have had to close due to lack of instructors. This is at a private four-year college and community college though. I don’t know what it’s like at a research university. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/51 "2022-08-05T01:19:51Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > If you figure out where you saw this, please provide a cite. Ditto. I find it interesting that the poll can’t be found but the six results, in order, can be remembered. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/52 "2022-08-05T01:31:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I saw a poll of teachers a while ago (which I currently can’t find again…) which stated the top issues causing them to want to leave were, in order: > > - Pandemic related issues/burnout > - Classroom behaviour of students > - Student absenteeism > - Politics in schools (from both sides - Woke teachers feeling attacked, non-woke not liking being forced to teach woke politics and feeling marginalized) > - General lack of respect from admin, parents, students > - Pay/Benefits Hmmm. Could it have been [this January 2022 National Education Association members survey?](https://www.nea.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/NEA%20Member%20COVID-19%20Survey%20Summary.pdf) It has a list of “Issues facing educators” which is somewhat similar to yours, ranked as follows from higher to lower percentage of respondents considering the issue to be either “somewhat serious” or “very serious”, which I copy here from page 2 of the linked report: > [@](#): > > - General stress from the coronavirus pandemic > - Feeling burned out > - Student absences due to COVID-19 > - Unfilled job openings leading to more work for remaining staff > - Pay is too low > - Student behavioral issues > - Lack of respect from parents/the public > - Not enough planning or unstructured time It looks like the NEA survey and the poll you describe must be two different things (for one thing, the NEA report makes no mention of “politics” or “wokeness”). But the NEA survey resembles your list more than any similar survey I can find online (e.g., more than the [2021 RAND State of the Teacher Survey](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1108-1.html) and more than the [November 2020 Horace Mann Educator Health and Well-Being Study](https://www.horacemann.com/~/media/documents/supplemental/The%20Hidden%20Impact%20of%20COVID-19%20on%20Educators.pdf)). But Sam, if you can’t currently find the poll you saw, then how do you know what the individual issues and ordering were, specifically enough to list them in your post? (If you were just able to reproduce that information from memory then massive respect, I have to keep re-looking up old threads and posts and cites to link to them because I can never remember exactly what a source said.) [ETA: many people are saying this!] ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/53 "2022-08-05T01:31:46Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Ditto. I find it interesting that the poll can’t be found but the six results, in order, can be remembered. If you subtract the woke nonsense, it sounds a lot like this poll: > **[NEA survey: Massive staff shortages in schools leading to educator burnout;...](https://www.nea.org/about-nea/media-center/press-releases/nea-survey-massive-staff-shortages-schools-leading-educator-burnout-alarming-number-educators)** > > The National Education Association, the nation’s largest union representing nearly 3 million educators, unveiled its latest survey of members' opinions on key issues facing public education during the pandemic. Click through to the linked .pdf. ETA: Damn, ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/54 "2022-08-05T02:02:07Z")
Especially if you think the veteran’s number one (if not only) job in the military was firing weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/55 "2022-08-05T02:43:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Is there any place that actually offers a 4-year undergraduate degree in “Education?” Most everywhere I’ve seen that’s grad work. Your BA can be in anything. Don’t you have B.Ed. degrees in the States? They’re standard in Canada, I believe: four year degree, entry requirement is a high school diploma. [https://programs.usask.ca/education/bachelor-of-education-bed/index.php#Program](https://programs.usask.ca/education/bachelor-of-education-bed/index.php#Program) [https://collegedunia.com/canada/college/97-university-of-regina-regina/bachelor-of-education-bed-25716](https://collegedunia.com/canada/college/97-university-of-regina-regina/bachelor-of-education-bed-25716) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/56 "2022-08-05T02:52:10Z")
I’ve never encountered one. MA, yes. But not undergrad. My experience is limited to California, however. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/57 "2022-08-05T02:56:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Someone with good teaching skills and poor content knowledge is worse than someone with poor teaching skills but good content knowledge. …Bootb is talking about the #1 qualification to be a teacher though. To use my field as an example: I am a professional photographer. There are better, more experienced, more knowledgeable photographers out there than me. There are photographers who would run circles around me. But my business has been going for 11 years. Because I’ve got business skills, great communications skills, and have strong networks. The best photographers more often than not fail as professional photographers. They just don’t have what it takes. And “what it takes” isn’t necessarily content knowledge, but the ability to find clients and consistently deliver what they want, at a price-point that generates a profit. Successful teachers know how to teach. Content knowledge is of course absolutely essential. But if you can teach then its a matter of finding your niche and improving your content knowledge. But not everyone with great content knowledge can learn how to teach effectively. It isn’t a two way street. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/58 "2022-08-05T03:02:25Z")
I haven’t read the entire thread, but my dad got his degree in secondary history education in 1960, and left to join the fire department after a semester, because he was being forced to teach things he didn’t believe in. (He’s always told my sibs and me not to believe the party line about the JFK assassination, so I wonder what they were making him teach.) He then moonlighted as a sub from then until the early 00s, and he always said that the wealthiest schools had the worst discipline problems; they just covered things up better. You know, poor people’s problems vs. rich people’s problems? They’re having big problems in my city with administration not being able to discipline students, whether for minor or major infractions, in large part because the parents always seem to scream “LAWSUIT!” and the school instantly caves. The thing that’s getting the most publicity is at the middle schools, where kids refuse to go to class, or stay there; they just wander the halls and beat each other up. And this story got a lot of publicity a couple years ago, when it happened. > **[Claims of violence in Bettendorf Schools: One former teacher speaks out](https://www.ourquadcities.com/news/local-news/claims-of-violence-in-bettendorf-schools-one-former-teacher-speaks-out/)** > > A response from the Bettendorf School District after parents called on the board last night to do something about their claims of violence among students on campus. Some parents brought their compl… The boys were returning from a basketball game, and one of the other boys masturbated in front of the other kids while recording himself on his phone with his other hand, and when he was finished, he smeared the “results” all over the bus window, and the face of the other boy. The father wanted - well, not really, but you may know what I mean - to see this footage, and he was not allowed to do so because it was classified as child pornography. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/59 "2022-08-05T03:07:08Z")
Lemme guess: You got out right before No Child Left Behind? I could name half a dozen people off the top of my head who left education, often at a huge personal and financial cost, for this reason, and this reason only. Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last few years, they would put my dad in the Behavioral Disorder classes because in addition to being one of the few people who would do it, they knew he wouldn’t take any crap from those kids. We have an uncommon last name, and whenever I would meet kids from other schools and confirm that yes, he’s my dad, they would almost always say, “Your dad’s pretty cool, but we can’t pull any funny stuff with him.” Yep, that’s Dad for you. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091/60 "2022-08-05T03:19:35Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > He then moonlighted as a sub from then until the early 00s, and he always said that the wealthiest schools had the worst discipline problems; they just covered things up better. You know, poor people’s problems vs. rich people’s problems? True, in my experience. I worked in a very high end district for a year, and left to go to a very low end district. I liked the latter a lot more, mainly because I felt needed. And (at first) I was given a lot of freedom to improve things. The wealthy school district had a different set of problems, and I found the kids, parents and administrators obnoxious. In the case of the kids it didn’t bother me when they were obnoxious out of ignorance, but in the wealthy school district they were obnoxious out of privilege. I had no patience with that. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Lemme guess: You got out right before No Child Left Behind? Actually, no. I was there for several years of that. It was not generally the source of my dissatisfaction, but I’m sure it didn’t help either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/severe-teacher-shortage-situation-in-america-right-now/969091.md?page=4)