# Sex and size difference, esp. virginity **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856 "2014-04-24T11:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/41 "2014-04-25T04:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Vaginismus is a condition where there is involuntary tightness of the vagina during attempted intercourse. The tightness is actually caused by involuntary contractions of the pelvic floor muscles surrounding the vagina. The woman does not directly control or ‘will’ the tightness to occur; it is an involuntary pelvic response. She may not even have any awareness that the muscle response is causing the tightness or penetration problem. Vaginismus has nothing to do with the man being “too big” (though it certainly doesn’t help). It can be caused by trauma. Sexual child abuse, for example. It’s treatable, but it requires commitment and patience. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/42 "2014-04-25T04:14:47Z")
Just in case this is somehow unknown to you (although in this day and age of internet porn, it’s probably not) many women cannot be vaginally penetrated with their legs down, even if they spread them wide to the sides. They must come up and out to allow the pelvic floor muscles to relax enough for you to gain access. (Likewise, you can’t remove a menstrual cup while standing; gotta crouch or sit.) Being a teenager back in the stone age of print only porn that was mostly pictures of women, not actual sex, this was something that escaped my notice. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/43 "2014-04-25T07:53:12Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > If you were able to get in up to the hymen but not past it, my grandparents had the same issue on their wedding night. And their wedding morning. And the second night. On the second morning, Gramps said “to hell with this” and broke it manually. > > Note that they had previously, and I quote Grandma “done anything you can do while one person has their underwear on”. I’m not talking about “fisting as the first step after first base”, I’m talking about a procedure which was as chirurgical as Gramps could make it, not about using a fist but about using as little of his hand as he could, and about a bride who was a virgin only in the most strict sense. I started laughing my ass off so loudly my wife asked me what was up, she was like eh probably senile old people telling gross out stories to horrified grand children.😛 ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/44 "2014-04-26T00:55:47Z")
I’m going to say it’s physically impossible to keep a lubricated and fully erect penis from entering a consenting vagina or anus of legal age no matter the size difference unless the almost mythical hymen is composed of unobtanium, and will say also that Namkcalb is some kind of semi literate racist twit, come on. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/45 "2014-04-26T01:22:40Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > I’m going to say it’s physically impossible to keep a lubricated and fully erect penis from entering a consenting vagina or anus of legal age no matter the size difference unless the almost mythical hymen is composed of unobtanium If the woman suffers from [vaginismus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus) then it might be _possible_ for her partner to get his penis in, but it would be difficult and unpleasant for both of them and painful for her. As **LinusK** said, vaginismus is sometimes caused by psychological trauma, although it can also be a response to pain/irritation from some underlying medical condition (e.g. recurring yeast infections) or happen for no clear reason at all. It seems unlikely to me that the OP’s size or the woman’s hymen are the problem. She should consult with a gynecologist. ---
**Author:** ![wellanuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@wellanuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellanuff)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/46 "2014-04-26T01:40:56Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’m talking about a procedure which was as chirurgical as Gramps could make it “chirurgical”! Cool word. Never encountered it before; thought it was a typo for surgical at first. Is there a difference between “chirurgical” and “surgical,” some sort of special nuance that the word carries? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/47 "2014-04-26T02:07:42Z")
I am thinking a chirurgeon rides around on a wooly pink Tibetan antelope (“chiru”). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/48 "2014-04-26T03:01:39Z")
I’ve heard of doctors doing a simple office procedure that makes sex less painful. Sometime a hymen doesn’t fully tear open and sex can be painful? I wouldn’t suggest any DIY with a bottle or anything. If its a problem let the doctor take a look. ---
**Author:** ![ceilidh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@ceilidh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ceilidh)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/49 "2014-04-26T03:12:07Z")
Have her be on top. It’ll be a lot easier for her if she’s completely in control. It may take some time for her to relax, but it’ll eventually work. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/50 "2014-04-26T04:18:13Z")
Since that’s my line of work, I’d say see someone who can do a physical exam, and who is comfortable talking about sex. The two are not always present in the same provider. If you don’t have easy access to such, either use a finger first, and press DOWN on the PC muscle once you have at least a knuckle in. Massage a bit, then try for a second finger, or your penis. I had a patient with a similar situation. She was really shy, too. On advice, she went to the local toy store and got two vibrators; much cheaper than dilators, and have additional benefits. (She took her mother, who is also a patient). One is a finger sized curved tip jelly clitoral stimulator, and one is a very basic 5 inch dildo with battery. Coat one with lube, insert, turn on for two minutes. Stop and remove, then insert the larger one (also lubed) and turn on for two minutes. Remove. Repeat twice a day. Hymens can be quite stretchy, or not. That’s why the exam would be helpful. Btw the ideal vaginal delivery DOES NOT INCLUDE AN EPISIOTOMY DAMMIT!!! The only thing episiotomy scissors are good for is cutting IUD strings. Tears are smaller in most cases that a cut which will then tear further. No, I’m not a midwife or Ob, I just work with them. This is what they say. My daughter delivered an 8lb 2 oz babe over an intact perineum, and a 9 lb 14 oz with three stitches, no epis. (she’s disgusting, as she also has about three stretch marks and unlike her mother, looks like she’s about 20 within a year) Men with VERY large penises (I’m talking the size of a forearm) have a lot of trouble finding partners. Saw one once at Moonstone. The 7 lb baby point is valid for about everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/51 "2014-04-26T06:02:44Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Granted, a virgin will be a tighter fit than, say, Mrs. Dugger but you two should be able to get to the Happy Place. Who the hell is Mrs. Dugger? ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/52 "2014-04-26T06:23:10Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Just in case this is somehow unknown to you (although in this day and age of internet porn, it’s probably not) many women cannot be vaginally penetrated with their legs down, even if they spread them wide to the sides. They must come up and out to allow the pelvic floor muscles to relax enough for you to gain access. :smack: I wish I heard about this earlier, we tried it, and I could comfortably fit a finger in all the way. > [@Lamia](#): > > It seems unlikely to me that the OP’s size or the woman’s hymen are the problem. She should consult with a gynecologist. Thanks, we’ll book an appointment in a month or two once we give try the more basic stuff first as she is a bit shy. > [@ceilidh](#): > > Have her be on top. It’ll be a lot easier for her if she’s completely in control. It may take some time for her to relax, but it’ll eventually work. We tried that and my penis flopped out ☹ > [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](#): > > _snip_ Excellent advice, I managed to get my index finger deep inside her vagina. We’ll practice with more in the future. If that doesn’t work then we’ll definately the two vibrator strategy. P.S. What is Moonstone? > [@slowlearner](#): > > I’m going to say it’s physically impossible to keep a lubricated and fully erect penis from entering a consenting vagina or anus of legal age no matter the size difference unless the almost mythical hymen is composed of unobtanium, and will say also that Namkcalb is some kind of semi literate racist twit, come on. Would you kindly refrain from personal attacks on this thread, as my girlfriend is reading it with me. You are more than welcome to start a “Namkcalb is an eedyit” thread in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/53 "2014-04-26T06:38:49Z")
> [@wellanuff](#): > > “chirurgical”! Cool word. Never encountered it before; thought it was a typo for surgical at first. > > Is there a difference between “chirurgical” and “surgical,” some sort of special nuance that the word carries? Not AFAIK, it simply was the one that came to mind at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/54 "2014-04-26T11:12:45Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Who the hell is Mrs. Dugger? Michelle Duggar is a woman who’s chief claim to fame is having given birth to 19 children. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/55 "2014-04-26T12:54:33Z")
Moonstone is a beach in Rhode Island. Up until the early 80s it was a nude beach. You had to walk a little to get there, and there was volleyball, and unwritten rules- no sex, no unwelcome advances, no staring, and you could leave on any clothing you wished. There were regulars (you could tell, they were very tan all over) who quietly enforced said rules. I am talking late 70s, because part of the reason it is now a piping plover reserve is people started to get rowdy and very inconsiderate. (I don’t know what it looks like post Sandy, either) Sounds like you will be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/56 "2014-04-26T13:49:43Z")
\*\*Humblebrag \*\* /həmbəl brag/ \*Noun \* 1. My dick is so gigantic it just won’t fit in her vagina. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/57 "2014-04-26T17:21:04Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Wow. Gross. Forget it, Jamie. It’s Hispanotown. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/58 "2014-04-28T07:13:44Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > … and will say also that Namkcalb is some kind of semi literate racist twit, come on. Don’t call other posters names on here, it’s against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856/59 "2014-07-20T07:51:45Z")
\*\*\*\*Update: \*\*\*\* After several weeks of experimentation, we finally managed to make it work. The finger trick helped, and so did raising the legs and using lakes worth of lubrication. Hopefully this thread will be useful to other people who have this problem… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-and-size-difference-esp-virginity/686856.md?page=2)