# Sex before Marriage. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269 "2008-09-26T01:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/41 "2008-09-26T17:07:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’m reading an old (1932) book on “Marital Hygiene” right now, and the author (a psychologist, as far as I can tell) has an interesting, non religious take on this. I don’t know if his theories are still held as valid or not, but they’ve got truthiness going for them. > > Romantic love, he says, is a phenomenon caused by the sublimation of the “sex instinct”. If you have sex, you feel united as one through that sex, if for a brief time only. If you sublimate that sex act, you feel united through other things, and we call that romantic love and it feels really good. People who hate baseball become avid baseball fans when dating a baseball player; people who are bored with art love art museums when dating an artist. This is because they’re not knocking boots, so the emotional and psychological effects of sex come out in other ways. Today’s scientists trace it to release of certain chemicals in the brain when new relationships are formed. Specifically phenylethylamine, which triggers dopamine release. After a period of time(between four months and four years), PEA stops being triggered by being around a person and various endorphins, including oxycontin(the so-called “bonding” chemical) get released instead of PEA(which is a amphetamine). So the “high” changes to a mellow. A relationship structured to avoid the “high” and work together to be compatible without the brain chemistry boost would be more likely to survive the change from high to mellow. So holding off in the activities which stimulate PEA release, working with just closeness, but not passion, and committing to each other under those conditions, may be a good approach. Then you get the high during the beginning of the marriage, but once it wears off you’ll still be able to make it work. A couple who forms the relationship with high PEA levels(passion), may not last when those stop and the endorphins are all they have to work with. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/42 "2008-09-26T17:11:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Two virgins talking about sexual compatibility is like two blind people discussing decorating choices. It’s delusional to think that you can substute talk for direct , sensual experience. The problem with this comparison is that blind people have no idea of what a room should look like… but they’ll probably have plenty of other great ideas about the sorts of textures they’d like in the room, what layout would be easier to move around in, and what furniture they’d be most comfortable sitting in. In the same way, a virgin isn’t completely unaware of sex and isn’t necessarily unfamiliar with “sensual experiences”, as you put it. Believe me, even my friends who waited for marriage did more than hold hands with their future husbands/wives, and I’m quite sure they had plenty of experience as to their compatibility on their wedding night. Agreed, they may not necessarily have been as comfortable with each other as two fully experienced partners may be, but there’s also something to be said for a completely blank slate - breaking old bad habits isn’t easy. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/43 "2008-09-26T17:17:13Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Today’s scientists trace it to release of certain chemicals in the brain when new relationships are formed. Specifically phenylethylamine, which triggers dopamine release. After a period of time(between four months and four years), PEA stops being triggered by being around a person and various endorphins, including oxycontin(the so-called “bonding” chemical) get released instead of PEA(which is a amphetamine). So the “high” changes to a mellow. A relationship structured to avoid the “high” and work together to be compatible without the brain chemistry boost would be more likely to survive the change from high to mellow. So holding off in the activities which stimulate PEA release, working with just closeness, but not passion, and committing to each other under those conditions, may be a good approach. Then you get the high during the beginning of the marriage, but once it wears off you’ll still be able to make it work. A couple who forms the relationship with high PEA levels(passion), may not last when those stop and the endorphins are all they have to work with. > > Enjoy, > Steven Brilliant! So it sounds like he might have been correct, and now we know the physical/chemical mechanism behind it. Thanks so much for sharing that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/44 "2008-09-26T17:18:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Romantic love, he says, is a phenomenon caused by the sublimation of the “sex instinct”. If you have sex, you feel united as one through that sex, if for a brief time only. If you sublimate that sex act, you feel united through other things, and we call that romantic love and it feels really good. People who hate baseball become avid baseball fans when dating a baseball player; people who are bored with art love art museums when dating an artist. This is because they’re not knocking boots, so the emotional and psychological effects of sex come out in other ways. > > The thing is, this romantic infatuation doesn’t last after the sex instinct is fulfilled with actual sex, because it was an artifact of the sublimation of that instinct. You realize you never liked baseball anyway and he never puts his socks in the hamper and what the fuck are you doing with this loser, anyway? > > But if you manage to cultivate this personal closeness throughout a long courtship, you end up with a stronger marriage when the sex drive is no longer sublimated, because you’ve grown to know the person very well through seeking that non-sexual union. If you have sex too early in a relationship, you don’t care about them as a person when the sex act kills the romance. That’s why 1932 books are curiosities, not guides to behavior. Why not build up this non-sexual intimacy over a few months, and then have both before marriage? I suspect he doesn’t have a lot of data from back then, right? He also seems to be reflecting the old sexist view that women should pretend to be interested in what men are interested in to snag them. If I married someone partially because she liked baseball, and I found it was a fraud, I’d be pretty unhappy. Marriage is not about perfect compatibility (that’s impossible) but about tearing down all barriers between two people. I’d never want to marry someone who I never saw first thing in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/45 "2008-09-26T17:34:02Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Obviously, that’s subjective, but in my experience preferences do change: one acquires tastes over time, and outgrows other things. Situations change–the sorts of things one prefers at 22 in a studio apartment may be different from the sorts of things one prefers when there are kids sleeping down the hall. Bodies change, and things that were comfortable become less so. On the other hand, things that were novel become old hat and you become more willing to try new things. I don’t think constant preferences means that everything will be the same over time. Frequency can change with tiredness and distractions, but that doesn’t mean preferences have changed - as I can testify to, having come out the other side of having kids. Sure you discover new things. But I doubt that there is going to be a big change in major preferences over time. Someone who hated exhibitionism, for a mild example, is not going to all of a sudden want to flash. > [@](#): > > And in any case, libido is a huge chunk of “sexual compatibility”–couples seem to fight about frequency more than anything else–and, for many women at least, that isn’t a simple thing–hormones fluctuate throughout life with age but also with pregnancy and disease, as does self-esteem and confidence. It’s a roller coaster, not a slide. Again, the base libido stays the same even when it is modulated by things like childbirth. Knowing that a partner is not interested because of the effects of medicine or stress is a lot different from a basic mismatch. And debates about how many times a week are far different from ones about how many times a year. That’s the mismatch to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/46 "2008-09-26T17:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Romantic love, he says, is a phenomenon caused by the sublimation of the “sex instinct”. If you have sex, you feel united as one through that sex, if for a brief time only. If you sublimate that sex act, you feel united through other things, and we call that romantic love and it feels really good. What a steaming pile of shit. 1. I don’t buy that men feel bonded to sexual partners or feel “as one” unless there’s already an established emotional connection before the sex. Otherwise, it’s just busting a nut. I’ve had one-off sex that felt emotionally no different than masturbation. 2. I have felt perfectly united through those other things while still having sex. No “sublimation of the sex drive” is required. The "high’ is there with or without the sex. The key is finding someone you can stand to hang out with when the chemicals wear off. Whether you’re boning them or not has nothing to do with the chemical response. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/47 "2008-09-26T17:36:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That’s why 1932 books are curiosities, not guides to behavior. Why not build up this non-sexual intimacy over a few months, and then have both before marriage? Which is what I said in my last paragraph. > [@](#): > > He also seems to be reflecting the old sexist view that women should pretend to be interested in what men are interested in to snag them. No, not at all, not even a little bit. He says that one really does become interested in baseball (or art or your mother) when courting without sex, due to the sublimation of the sex instinct. You really do feel a bond, and identification with that person and that person’s interests, even if they were things that didn’t interest you before. Haven’t you felt that? I sure have. Haven’t you seen a friend so enamored of his new girlfriend that he’s suddenly happy to go to a quilting expo? I have. And I’ve also seen lots of those shared interests diminish after marriage or long term pairing. A strong relationship can handle that; an early relationship can’t, IME. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/48 "2008-09-26T17:38:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Which is what I said in my last paragraph. > > No, not at all, not even a little bit. He says that one really does become interested in baseball (or art or your mother) when courting without sex, due to the sublimation of the sex instinct. You really do feel a bond, and identification with that person and that person’s interests, even if they were things that didn’t interest you before. That has nothing to do with not having sex, though. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/49 "2008-09-26T17:54:48Z")
I did not wait until marriage before having sex, but on the other hand I know very well some people who did – family members who are Orthodox Jews. And they seem to be just fine. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/50 "2008-09-26T17:58:48Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Today’s scientists trace it to release of certain chemicals in the brain when new relationships are formed. Specifically phenylethylamine, which triggers dopamine release. After a period of time(between four months and four years), PEA stops being triggered by being around a person and various endorphins, including **oxycontin** (the so-called “bonding” chemical) get released instead of PEA(which is a amphetamine). I think you mean **oxytocin**. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/51 "2008-09-26T18:24:06Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > I think you mean **oxytocin**. :eek: That’s what I get for trusting my spellcheck. Stupid pharmaceutical companies getting their brand names in the dictionary while common human hormones still get flagged as misspelled. Bastards. I guess I should be grateful it didn’t come up OxyClean[sup]TM[/sup] Thanks for the heads-up. Anyone googling for Oxycontin were probably confused as hell when it didn’t turn up anything about human emotional bonding. [Oxytocin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin) is the substance which produces these effects. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/52 "2008-09-26T18:32:51Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > After a period of time(between four months and four years), PEA stops being triggered by being around a person and various endorphins, including oxycontin(the so-called “bonding” chemical) get released instead of PEA(which is a amphetamine). So the “high” changes to a mellow. I think you mean ‘oxytocin’ and I’ve research oxytocin for a bit and this is different than what I’ve read the subject. Oxytocin is a bonding hormone that is released when men kiss, when both partners orgasm while having sex, and when women give birth and lactate their offspring. It increases trust, bonding, affection, love etc. So, if anything, partners should be _more_ bonded if/when oxytocin is released in greater qualities. If anything, I think the oxytocin release could cause a bonding to a person that would otherwise not occur without that sexual release. That’s the reason why my mother argues that we children should not have sex before marriage: because the oxytocin released during sex causes an intimacy and bonding to form that might not occur otherwise. And, I have observed many times with friends, that it is much harder to end a relationship when you are having sex frequently then when you have stopped. Personally, I’d tell my children to wait to get to know the person very well before having sex in order to avoid this problem. Not I don’t know of relationships that started in sex that moved to friendship and love, but those seem to be the exception rather than the rule. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/53 "2008-09-26T19:03:48Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Here’s a debate about that i’ve seen some Dopers come down on one side or the other. Though I don’t think i’ve really ever seen it as a debate, per se; it tends to crop up as a tangent in the ubiquitous religion debates or gay marriage debates. I know some Dopers are in favour of this as a personal choice, though I know of none who favour it as a good plan for all people, so this may not get any interest. Oh well. > > My side of it is this; I don’t get it. Usually, when I hear it brought up (not generally here, and yes, I am generalising) the idea that someone shouldn’t have sex before marriage seems to be a factor of marriage being a highly important bond. Sometimes sex is deemed shallow and a meaningless thing without the bonds of marriage; sometimes to the contrary it’s deemed a highly important thing, often in terms of procreation, and that’s why it should be kept to within a marriage. I’d say that the many kinds of contraception deal with the procreation problem, assuming that the person in question isn’t againt those outside of marriage. But really my main objection is that it just doesn’t seem like a good plan. > > The general idea of marriage is that it’s a pretty important and life-changing decision to make. It’s not something to be entered into lightly; though the anti-sex-before-marriage people may disagree on many things, this seems to be something of a constant, and i’d wager most people who aren’t bothered when people have sex would agree, too. People don’t propose at the end of a first date (generally). You get to know one another first. You find out what the other person things about things - their general outlook on life. You might meet their family. All the things that let you know that this is a person you can honestly promise to (and look forward to) spending the rest of your life with. And yet, on this particular issue, the idea seems to be that you should not get to know someone this way. And that just seems odd to me; I would think that the more value one placed on marriage, the more you would want to know about the other person to make sure you were making the right choice. And sexual compatibility isn’t guaranteed. > > To me it’s like someone saying that you shouldn’t talk about politics before you get married. Everything else is fine, but talking about politics, about your views of how society works and how it should work, is a deeply intimate thing that should only occur within a marriage. Only when you are truly sure of someone, and have made a guarantee with them, should you share your views. And to me it just seems like it should be the other way around - you can’t know you’re sure without finding out these things. > > But, like i’ve said, I don’t get this, which generally with me tends to mean I just haven’t heard the whole story. So what are people’s thoughts on this? The theory driving those who oppose sex outside marriage, including myself, is like this. People who have sex within marriage will generally be happier than those who have sex outside marriage. The sexual behavior typical among young people in western society is a path to unhappiness. In short, when a person switches sexual partners often, it creates inevitable problems. Jealousy, fear of betrayal, suspicion, insecurity. These cannot be avoided. They arise logically in an environment where any two people can have sex and there’s no attempt to uphold our society’s traditional rules governing sexual behavior. As for the issue of determining whether partners are compatible before marriage, I view that as a category mistake. Marriage–both the sexual experiences and the rest–is not an experience like brain surgery where you want everything carefully tested and planned before it begins. It is rather an experience like dancing or white-water rafting, where you’ll enjoy it more when you know less about what it will be like. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/54 "2008-09-26T19:06:57Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > I think you mean ‘oxytocin’ and I’ve research oxytocin for a bit and this is different than what I’ve read the subject. Oxytocin is a bonding hormone that is released when men kiss, when both partners orgasm while having sex, and when women give birth and lactate their offspring. It increases trust, bonding, affection, love etc. So, if anything, partners should be **more** bonded if/when oxytocin is released in greater qualities. That’s true, but the feelings of “passion” are not caused by oxytocin(thanks for the correction, I’ve updated my spellcheck). Largely these come from adrenaline, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Oxytocin is thought to be antagonistic to dopamine and norepinephrine. Curiously enough, the more you “bond”, the less you have “passion” at least if we substitute the crude analogies of dopamine and norepinephrine for “passion” and oxytocin for “bonding.” The chemicals more associated with “passion” (adrenaline, dopamine, norepinephrine, phenylethylamine, etc.) are either blocked by other substances over time, or our bodies develop tolerances to them. Bio-chemically speaking, passion doesn’t last. A relationship built on activities which encourage oxytocin, vasopressin, and endorphins, all of which can remain for a lifetime, is more likely to remain the same throughout than one which was formed in a mind state influenced by adrenaline, dopamine, norepinephrine, phenylethylamine, etc., which fade. It’s pretty basic, but [How Stuff Works - The Chemistry of Love](http://people.howstuffworks.com/love6.htm) has a lot of straightforward information. I guess this means I agree with your mom? _Que sera sera_. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/55 "2008-09-26T19:12:12Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The sexual behavior typical among young people in western society is a path to unhappiness. Not for everyone. Marriage is a path to unhappiness for at least as many people. > [@ITR champion](#): > > In short, when a person switches sexual partners often, it creates inevitable problems. Jealousy, fear of betrayal, suspicion, insecurity. These cannot be avoided. It’s a good thing those feelings never happen to married people. > [@ITR champion](#): > > It is rather an experience like dancing or white-water rafting, where you’ll enjoy it more when you know less about what it will be like. I agree with this. But I feel the same way about sex. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/56 "2008-09-26T19:20:05Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > If anything, I think the oxytocin release could cause a bonding to a person that would otherwise not occur without that sexual release. That’s the reason why my mother argues that we children should not have sex before marriage: because the oxytocin released during sex causes an intimacy and bonding to form that might not occur otherwise. That’s what struck me after I read about this too–partners having casual sex with no strings attached and then getting this rush of bondingness. It’s got to be confusing to then tamp all that down and move on. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/57 "2008-09-26T19:28:29Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The theory driving those who oppose sex outside marriage, including myself, is like this. People who have sex within marriage will generally be happier than those who have sex outside marriage. The sexual behavior typical among young people in western society is a path to unhappiness. Not for me. I was happier fucking around when I was single than I was married, and I was married for 8 years. It really depends on the marriage, doesn’t it? > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In short, when a person switches sexual partners often, it creates inevitable problems. Jealousy, fear of betrayal, suspicion, insecurity. These cannot be avoided. They arise logically in an environment where any two people can have sex and there’s no attempt to uphold our society’s traditional rules governing sexual behavior. Once again, not for me. When I was switching sexual partners “often” (whatever that means), none of those issues came up. Again, it’s really an individual response, right? > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > As for the issue of determining whether partners are compatible before marriage, I view that as a category mistake. Marriage–both the sexual experiences and the rest–is not an experience like brain surgery where you want everything carefully tested and planned before it begins. It is rather an experience like dancing or white-water rafting, where you’ll enjoy it more when you know less about what it will be like. Disagree here, too. You should at the very least know whether you’re going to be basically compatible in the important areas of a marriage (of which sex is definitely at or near the top) if you want the marriage to have any chance at all. Again, I speak from personal experience. Question: I’ve been with my girlfriend for 9 years now, and we have no plans to get married. Should our relationship therefore be chaste? Because that seems pretty fucking ridonkulous to me. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/58 "2008-09-26T19:57:07Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The theory driving those who oppose sex outside marriage, including myself, is like this. People who have sex within marriage will generally be happier than those who have sex outside marriage. The sexual behavior typical among young people in western society is a path to unhappiness. First off, I don’t believe you can claim that your own personal motivation is the same motivation of all those who oppose sex before marriage. I mentioned a few reasons i’ve heard in the OP; I don’t believe you can generalise from your personal experience (or, rather, if you can generalise from yours generalisations from _my_ personal experiences are equally valid and yet contradictory). And second, what are you basing this measure of happiness on? > [@](#): > > In short, when a person switches sexual partners often, it creates inevitable problems. Jealousy, fear of betrayal, suspicion, insecurity. These cannot be avoided. They arise logically in an environment where any two people can have sex and there’s no attempt to uphold our society’s traditional rules governing sexual behavior. Again, i’m going to have to ask you to define things. What is “often”? What exactly do you mean by “switching” - you make it sound like the opposite to abstinence before marriage is partner-swapping at the drop of a hat. > [@](#): > > As for the issue of determining whether partners are compatible before marriage, I view that as a category mistake. Marriage–both the sexual experiences and the rest–is not an experience like brain surgery where you want everything carefully tested and planned before it begins. It is rather an experience like dancing or white-water rafting, where you’ll enjoy it more when you know less about what it will be like. Granted, i’m not married, and in fact haven’t had sex, either. But it seems to me that were I going white-water rafting, though I won’t be plumbing the depths of the river or demanding an analysis of the water, i’d probably like to know the basic safety rules. If i’m going to dance, i’d like to know what the music is so I can dance to it. People don’t tend to get married after knowing each other for a couple of hours; they do tend to get to know one another beforehand. To use your terminology, that’s part of our society’s traditional rules governing sexual behaviour. It just seems to me that, in comparison to the areas where it’s encouraged to know one’s potential spouse well, sex is one area which is treated very much differently. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/59 "2008-09-26T20:02:42Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > And when you are 22 you don’t know what you will want at 30 and when you are 30 you don’t know what you will want at 45. Libido and preferences shift and evolve throughout our lives, and I’d argue that perfect sexual compatibility when you get married could be bad for a marriage–after all, if your sexual needs are in perfect sync at the time, you never learn if the other person is going to be considerate and flexible if your needs/tastes/styles change. I’d rather be with a person that pays attention to me and wants to please me than with someone who happens to be my magical perfect match in a given period–because that won’t be my match in ten years. But change over time is true for everything else about us, too; personality, preferences in general, certainly situation and outlook on life. By the same logic, you could say that perfect compatibility on any matters were bad, since you don’t know what they will be like when matters change. It’s just as reasonable, under that idea, to say getting know a partner at all has bad points. Really, I don’t disagree with you that over time, it may not have too much of an effect. But I personally think that i’d want to know at least a little about physical sexual compatibility. Talking about sex might be an adequate substitute, but how can it be known for sure without doing it? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269/60 "2008-09-26T20:16:43Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Which is what I said in my last paragraph. > > No, not at all, not even a little bit. He says that one really does become interested in baseball (or art or your mother) when courting without sex, due to the sublimation of the sex instinct. You really do feel a bond, and identification with that person and that person’s interests, even if they were things that didn’t interest you before. > > Haven’t you felt that? I sure have. Haven’t you seen a friend so enamored of his new girlfriend that he’s suddenly happy to go to a quilting expo? I have. And I’ve also seen lots of those shared interests diminish after marriage or long term pairing. A strong relationship can handle that; an early relationship can’t, IME. I wasn’t criticizing you, only the book. And no, I haven’t seen any difference in what interested me. More recently, I haven’t seen it in my daughter either. A guy will go to the quilting show to be able to spend more time with the girl, and will hold back nausea, but I think that is a lot different from actually being interested. Even after 30 years of marriage I don’t mind being dragged around to do birdwatching, but that is far more because we like being together in new places than my interest. And reduction of interest is not because of sex, but because people eventually migrate to their real interests over time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-before-marriage/465269.md?page=4)