# Sex, love, marriage, and the interaction/links between them... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962 "2010-04-22T04:49:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/21 "2010-04-22T19:03:19Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > I find it interesting how often I get a response (always from people I’ve known quite a while and almost always women) of “Oh, I wish I’d done that” followed by comments that sound rather anti-marriage. (We’re not anti-marriage. We just haven’t bothered.) > > These have given me the impression that there are a fair number of women who got married because it was expected of them. Not because they wanted to get married, but because it is the next step in the relationship, or because it is what good girls do. > > It also leads me to believe that these ladies believe that my relationship with my SO is somehow fundamentally different from their marriage. It’s like they think that by not getting the piece of paper signed, my SO and I somehow are more like that couple on their third date, giddy with hormones and gazing into each others eyes. Sorry, but we still argue over who used the last toilet paper, we still steal the blankets from each other, and we still disagree over what color to paint the kitchen. Ditto, on every count, even the women asking me about it. Then some get resentful. I actually kind of want to get married. I have been dreaming of a beautiful, large, Hindu wedding since I was three. But those are expensive. And he is not even Indian - by nationality he’s Chinese but really he’s as American as you can get (born here, hates China in a vague sort of way.) And it just seems like a foolish thing to spend money on. If someone handed me $10K today, I don’t think I would even think to spend that on a wedding. I’d go out and buy a new car. I need one. I could just go to the Justice of the Peace, sure, but I am not really sure why I need to go. Everyone keeps telling me about all of the advantages of getting married. But…that’s not a good enough reason for me. I have sex, I have love. I’m not really sure what the government has to do with sanctifying my marriage. I have no children or I would be sure to get married to be able to protect them. I also get the comments about how I don’t have a real relationship (right here on this very board!) that I don’t deserve the same respect as a “real” marriage (not even one that has only lasted three months to my thirteen years?) and that I am not truly committed to my SO. 13 years is not a joke! It would be longer but I haven’t lived that long! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/22 "2010-04-22T22:16:31Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So, with all this in mind, I ask: what links should exist between sex, love, and marriage, if any? Is there a middle ground between anything goes and strict monogamy? Can/should there be? Feel free to comment on any side issues that are related, like the “heternormativity” of monogamy I mention above. IMHO and from scripture and I believe from God is that ‘making Love’, either direct sex with Love or in the mind is marriage. It unites 2 into 1, and if people are in touch with their heart (most are not) they can feel the other person as them - it is really increadable if you never experienced that, it is exactly as you would suppose a scifi movie where 2 people switch bodies. Unfortunately this union has been misused, and multiple partners with impure motives has turned this into a great big mess of scattered soul ties, and men becoming more feminine, and also becoming more impotent, and women becoming more masculine. IMHO the state has no bearing on what a marriage is, it is only between those people and God. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/23 "2010-04-22T22:31:58Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Non-married couples living together of any gender combination (but most especially heterosexual ones) are at least viewed as somewhat odd, especially the longer the arrangement goes on. Premarital sex is the norm, and living together before marriage is definitely not unusual and may even be the practice of the majority. In religiously conservative communities, it may be looked at as odd. But outside of that, it’s common. It’s true that if you live with a significant other for 10 or 20 years and don’t get married, some people are going to wonder why you’re not hitched. A few may even interpret that as a sign of a lack of commitment. I don’t think that’s a majority view, though. And that’s only true for straight couples. Seeing as how gay or other couples can’t get married at all, it’s not odd for them to be unmarried. Beyond that I’d agree with **panache45**. Relationships are unique and I don’t think there’s a proper role for sex, love, and marriage beyond what works for the participants in the relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/24 "2010-04-22T23:33:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO and from scripture and I believe from God is that ‘making Love’, either direct sex with Love or in the mind is marriage. It unites 2 into 1 Or 3 into 1, or 4 or 5 or whatever number, based on the number of secondary wives, concubines, slaves, etc. that those Scripture people had. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/25 "2010-04-23T06:18:35Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > That’s true. I do know a few older couples that aren’t married and I haven’t heard anyone give them a hard time, but of course I can’t be aware of all that goes on in their lives. My partner and I are never asked why we’re not married . . . everyone knows. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/26 "2010-04-23T12:39:00Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Or 3 into 1, or 4 or 5 or whatever number, based on the number of secondary wives, concubines, slaves, etc. that those Scripture people had. That is part of the mess this combination when not done in accordance to the will of God. Abraham and Sarah and Hagar is a great example of such a mess. OTOH King David’s many wives is a great example of how once we get rid of the evil influences anything is possible, because they all become one, and it is always 2 becoming one, ultimately Christ and the bride of Christ. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/27 "2010-04-23T13:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > (most are not) I thought your God preached, “Judgment is mine, sayeth the Lord. Judge not lest you be judged.” Huh, guess he gave you a pass on that one. I’ve been with my partner over 25yrs without the benefit of marriage. Never seen a raised eyebrow about it. Some curiosity, on occasion, but that’s it. You know those benefits, right? The benefit of feeling so righteously betrayed when your ‘sacred’ union fails that one, or both, turn into evil, vindictive haters. Or the benefit of having your future shaped by the proceedings of a divorce court. Yeah, those are benefits I’ll happily forgo, thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/28 "2010-04-23T15:02:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A few may even interpret that as a sign of a lack of commitment. I don’t think that’s a majority view, though. And that’s only true for straight couples. Seeing as how gay or other couples can’t get married at all, it’s not odd for them to be unmarried. I think these two things are pretty firmly connected. If gay couples can marry, it’s harder to portray them as bed-hopping, self-indulgent sluts, practically a foreign species with no place in regular families (regardless of how many straight marriages are plagued by affairs). ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/29 "2010-04-23T16:57:43Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I actually kind of want to get married… > > I could just go to the Justice of the Peace, sure, but I am not really sure why I need to go. Everyone keeps telling me about all of the advantages of getting married. But…that’s not a good enough reason for me. > > I have sex, I have love. I’m not really sure what the government has to do with sanctifying my marriage. I have no children or I would be sure to get married to be able to protect them. I think a lot of the issue is that there’s just a fundamental disconnect between the way you seem to look at marriage and the way people who make comments to you look at it, the same way there is between the polyamorous and the monogamous. Even if you intellectually understand the opposing view, there’s that little voice in the back of your head sputtering “but…but…that’s so _stupid_!” because you just don’t _get_ it at a visceral level. And sometimes that little voice doesn’t stay tucked away in the back where it belongs, at which point people make the sort of comments you find in damn near every thread we’ve ever had about being poly or the merits of living together long-term vs getting married. See, for the “well, wtf are you waiting for?” brigade, of which I freely admit to being a member, the piece of paper isn’t about the state sanctifying a relationship. It’s about the state granting us a whole raft of legal protections for a nominal fee. Yes, we could legally secure our inheritance and decision-making rights without getting married, but by the time we made out wills and got medical and legal POA for each other and yadda yadda yadda, we’re looking at a few thousand dollars in legal bills. A marriage license is a lot faster and cheaper, plus I can be a dependent on his really good medical insurance much cheaper than I would be able to get worse insurance on my own. Basically, it’s the same sort of protection you would want to be certain your children had, except it’s for you. (Actually, it’s a lot more protection, since kids automatically have those sorts of rights anyway whether their parents are married or not.) So we look at this protection, and how cheap and easy it is to get it, and the fact that you appear to be planning forever anyway, and then you add in that you would like to get married and we think “whaddaya mean those aren’t good enough reasons to spend $30 and 20 minutes?” Like I said, a fundamental disconnect. I’m not sure it’s a gap that can ever be fully bridged. Of course, you really want a disconnect, you drag people like my cousin-in-law into the mix. She and her fellow have 3 kids and mortgage together, have had for years. And this winter they up and decided to get married. The overwhelming response, from pretty much all points on the marriage/living together spectrum, has been “Wait…what?! Wtf brought this on?” > [@](#): > > I also get the comments about how I don’t have a real relationship (right here on this very board!) that I don’t deserve the same respect as a “real” marriage (not even one that has only lasted three months to my thirteen years?) and that I am not truly committed to my SO. > > 13 years is not a joke! It would be longer but I haven’t lived that long! That’s something that has less to do with you and the other couples who have just never bothered and more to do with the far more vocal people who talk about marriage as though it were a cage. They pop up in every thread like this, people who offer comments like the one **elbows** made about the horrors of trying to leave when you’re married. (Special note: neither the previous sentence nor any of the following is intended as any sort of summary of or commentary on **elbow** ’s views on marriage or her relationship. This is purely about how some people perceive comments like her list of the benefits of marriage.) Variations on that theme are 99.9% of the objections I hear to getting married. Not the various little hassles of daily life, or the vulnerability of mingling your finances, or anything else that has to do with actually being married. Just how hard and messy and expensive it is to not be married any more. It creates a perception that such people just want to keep the door open so they can keep one foot out it. Which, of course, doesn’t really imply much commitment. And like any other subject, people who are pretty neutral on the subject don’t tend to say much, leaving the dialog dominated by those who are strongly for or against. So the vast bulk of the commentary on marriage the people hear from folks who have lived together long-term is this stuff that creates a perception of non-commitment and they just kind of extrapolate that to all long-term unmarried couples. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962/30 "2010-04-23T17:12:41Z")
I have an advantage, I admit, in that, where I live, common law partners are offered precisely the same benefits as persons with the piece of paper. So there is no tax advantage, or advantage in law, that I don’t enjoy. I am, of course, very grateful that I live in such an evolved country. The most frequent comment we actually get is that we are ‘more married’ than most people with the paperwork. Meaning we clearly are 100% committed to each other and have already gone the distance, we own a home together, share income, etc, etc, like zillions of married couples. And I wasn’t commenting on the horrors of leaving a marriage. The horror is the same married or living together, I would guess. But persons coming out of a failed marriage, in my experience, take it a lot more personally. The sense of betrayal seems more intense, and it’s that sense of personal betrayal that turns, otherwise smart people, into vindictive haters. Witness all the psycho ex stories. Without the church service and sanctions, in my experience, people are a little more circumspect should things fail, and seem less likely to turn into raging monsters fighting over cars, boats, timeshares. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-love-marriage-and-the-interaction-links-between-them/536962.md?page=1)